Jane Eyre Blog Space for Chapters 17-18
Just a little reminder...I'd like us to talk about Miss Temple tomorrow, so come prepared...
Also, remember you need to choose and print out a poem for Poetry Out Loud for class tomorrow.
So remember when I talked about how being a governess was a fairly miserable job...How right was I? And what do you think of the gipsy?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 9:55 AM
22 comments
22 Comments:
A sharp contrast to the storms of her home with the Reeds and the dreariness of Lowood, in the beginning of chapter 17 a pleasant spring day was described as Jane was awaiting for Mr. Rochester to return home to Thornfield. Bronte writes, "It had been a mild, serene spring day--one of those days, which...rise shining over the earth as heralds of summer. It was drawing to an end now; but the evening was even warm" (175) Throughout the novel, weather seems to reflect Jane's overall mood and state of mind. Normally, Jane's mood is like a grey day: she's not the happiest person on earth, and the usual weather surrounding her usually reflects this. However, as she finds herself falling in love with Mr. Rochester, there is a small moment of brightness in her mundane life where she describes the literal sun shining in just as Mr. Rochester brightens her days at Thornfield.
I also noticed while reading the pattern of Adele's speech. The English translation of her speech is never given, as she almost always speaks in her native tounge to Jane. Why doesn't Bronte give the English to Adele's words?
I noticed that Taylor talked about the weather and how it was spring as Jane waited for Rochester to come home and that reminded me about how earlier in the book Jane seemed to like the cold more than the warm. For example at Lowood it always seemed like she hungerd for the cold and now here her attitude towards the spring has uplifted. How she literally describes Rochester as her sunshine therefore wanting the warmth that she has long ached for in her life.
To answer to Taylors comment about Bronte making Adele's speech be French because I feel in my opinion that is shows how Jane really showed how much she had excelled at Lowood. I feel like Bronte also does this because she wants also to bring forth a deeper connection between her and Jane. Thus Adele speaking in French with Jane it gives them a bond that no one else in the house has with her, that Adele feels like she can really be herself and show who she is to Jane because she can speak her native tounge. Making the bond between them all the bigger.
Hello.
I agree with the point TMLombard made about the weather-- Jane currently wants the weather to be cheery, because she is in a good mood, crushing on Mr. Rochester and all. Another example is on page 192, where Bronte writes "MERRY DAYS were these at Thornfield Hall....[a]ll sad feelings seemed now driven from the house, all gloomy associations forgotten: there was life everywhere..."
I would personally like to bring up Miss Ingram's horrible attitude towards Jane...on page 194, Jane says "'No,' I heard her say: 'she looks too stupid for any game of the sort.'" Why is she so mean to Jane, especially since Jane is an employee...why would she view Jane as competition?
On page 193, Jane thinks to herself "they spoke of 'playing charades,' but in my ignorance I did not understand the term." Why does Jane think of herself as "ignorant," when she is so smart? :(
Moving on, Miss Ingram seems to hear her fate with her visit to the fortuneteller, since Bronte writes, "[a]ll eyes met her with a glance of eager curiosity, and she met all eyes with one of rebuff and coldness..." (206). She also goes on to write, "...she never turned a page, and her face grew momently darker, more dissatisfied, and more sourly expressive of disappointment" (207). What do you guys think her fate was? She is obviously super flirtatious with Mr. Rochester ["Miss Ingram's efforts at fascinating Mr. Rochester"(198)], and Jane brought up the thoughts of marriage between Mr. Rochester and Miss Ingram after the wedding scene acted out during charades...maybe Miss Ingram and Mr. Rochester won't be a couple.
I agree with Taylor and Analu about the weather expressing Jane's mood. In the beginning of the book, it was raining, representing Jane's gloomy mood. Then, later on its a nice day, when Jane waits for Rochester to get home.
Other than the fact that a governess doesn't do much more than teach, I don't think its that bad. She still gets to live with the luxuries of her boss.
I think Blanche is the ignorant person, thinking that all "help" are uneducated and can't even play a simple game.
Well, since we all know that Jane will get married, its pretty obvious that it will be Rochester, since after going to the gypsy, Blanche seemed to be very disappointing. He even seems have feelings for her, unconsciously, when he tells her goodnight. I'm really sure, Blanche and Rochester will get married, they might prepare for it and at last minute he leaves her dramatically for Jane!
Okay, I wanted to talk about Blanche's role in Jane's life. We learn that Jane thinks that Mr. Rochester and Blanche will be getting married, even though they do not love each other. Blanche will be marrying him for his money, and Mr. Rochester will be marrying Blanche for her beauty and her social status. He does not want to show his love for Jane as he bites his toungue as he is calling Jane his "love". I see Blanche as a foil for Jane. Blanche brings out the weaknesses in Jane such as her low social class and other things.
I agree with Marisa thinking that the fate of Blanche must be that her and Mr. Rochester are not to become a couple in the future.
Hey Guys,
I was wondering if anyone had any predictions about Grace Poole’s true role at Thornfield? Because of the conversation that Jane overhears between a couple of the servant about Poole’s high pay makes me think that there must be more to her.
Mr. Rochester is unable to tell Jane his true feelings on numerous occasions. I fell as though he truly loves her because he didn’t want her to leave the party, and when he asks her if she thinks he is handsome when he was drunk, or when accidentally called her “my love”. The main problem in that Rochester has is not whether or not he truly loves Jane but if he can muster his courage to tell her.
I would like to add on to the note that Marrisa made about Blache Ingram being extremely rude to Jane as she comments to her mother that all governesses are "incubi" and "half of them are detestable and the rest ridiculous." The word "incubi" strongly hints that Ingram sees Jane as competition in trying to win Rochester's love, though she may that Jane as won since Rochester let it slip that she was his love before they parted. I would have to agree with Steph that Blache is the opposite of Jane. Blache has the beauty and wealth while Jane has intelligence and character.
As Marrisa mentions, Ingram also states that Jane is "too stupid" to join their game of charades which reveals the ongoing social strains that Jane faces throughout the novel. The fact that Ingram quickly and strongly berates the idea that Jane should join hints that she see Jane on a lower level than herself. I feel that Ingram also views Jane as a threat to her happiness as she says "the word [governess] makes me nervous."
Bronte leaves an infuriating cliff hanger; this gypsy is interesting, though it's hard to say what role she has indefinitely at this point. We've only seen her establish her own ethos as a fortune teller. It seems that, like the witch from Macbeth's hearth, she will foretell something that will spurn the story in a wild direction, perhaps foretelling of future struggles, the (perhaps) struggle of class that her and Mr. Rochester must undergo to obtain their out-of-place love. But then again there's this strangeness of this supernatural yet again. Why the ghosts? The red room? The mysterious demon? This gypsy? --And why this Mr. Mason fellow instead of Mr. Rochester? Why do they show up before Mr. Rochester does? Is it coincidence, an author's tool of getting rid of a character and introducing new influences? Or is this Mr. Rochester's design?
The time they played charades is no event told in detail for no reason--that much is sure. There are three scenes, one of a marriage (between Mr. Rochester and Blanche), one of what seems to be a woman's kindness and in return treasure, and the last a scene of a man with intense melancholy and chains as if he committed a crime. To me, it seems as if this was expressed just for foreshadowing. There will be the marriage of the two, that much seems clear. But the second seems to refer to Jane and Mr. Rochester. The third is the "bridewell," or (after looking it up) the prison. Piecing these together, it seems that Mr. Rochester will marry Blanche, but having found his heart arrested to someone else will break this vow scandalously; who else but Jane. There's also this glaring similarity between the two words "bride" and "bridewell." It seems as if the author is trying to say that this marriage is a prison.
Because I'm a bit paranoid, for lack of a better term at the moment, I say right now that Grace Poole is either Adele's mother, or of some relation to Mr. Rochester.
One question I had though, was when Blanche and co. were discussing the nature of governesses, and remarked that "half of them detestable and the rest ridiculous, and all incubi" (187). As Paul noted before, it seems as if they view the governesses as, competition per say, with either their husbands or potential suitors. However, I was under the impression that governesses were women, yet incubui are specifically known as male demons, not female ones. Do you think this was done to showcase their lack of knowledge, or does it have some greater meaning?
Also, as for the "gipsy," what do you think she said to make Blanche so unhappy? Do you think she said something along the lines of her not being with Mr. Rochester, or could it be something more mysterious?
To respond to Taylor's and Analu's blogs, I think that Jane was conscious of the limitations to her happiness with Mrs. Reed so, knowing she was stuck in the "cold" there, she decided to embrace it and became a "cold" person. As both of you noted, it seems that at Thornfield she has discovered some sort of happiness and hope. However, as we have seen Jane encounters a major barrier between her and happiness: social class. Jane believes that she doesn't deserve to love a man of higher class and the higher class like Blanche believe she is not worthy of it either.
As for the gypsy... I'm confused. It seems a bit out of place, and she seems suspicious. My prediction would be that Blanche is told that she will never get married or that Rochester does not love her; that would explain her reaction.
Also, does anyone else think that everything in Thornfield is just a bit creepy?
Okay so Jane and Blanche clearly have a strong contrast. Blanche being high in the social world and beautiful, and Jane being plain and poor. I think that Mr. Rochester himself is stuck in a hardplace becasue he knows that dating Jane would be absurd. However Blanche definetly brings out the jealousy in Jane. THis is a characteristic that we haven't seen that much of Jane, and it also doesn't fit into her new reserve personalities. I think to comment on something Marissa said today, that Blanche is the new sitaution that will challenged what she has learned from Lowood and Helen Burns, and it might turn her back to being bitter. This is another oppurtunity where the world is being mean to her because it is not her fault that she was born in to poverty basically, and the man she has developed a love for can not date her out of shame.
Okay and Grace Poole this lady just still baffles my mind and Janes as well. I am having trouble connecting her or referencing her to anything else that I have read. She is allowed such special treatment at the house. I was thinking that maybe she is a relative of Mr. Rochester or even a daughter?
“Adele's speech gives them a bond that no one else in the house has and makes Adele feel like she can really be herself and show who she is to Jane because she can speak her native tongue; making the bond between them all the bigger”. I enjoyed what Ana said here and to add on to that, I believe that Bronte adds the French language as a romantic element. French is a beautiful language and links not just Adele and Jane together but also Rochester, who goes off and on with his French when he speaks to Jane.
Apart from weather suggesting the mood Jane is in, Bronte’s style of writing has changed, and we see this earlier in the chapters as the love blooms. Primarily now, Jane has feelings of longing for Rochester and she’s slowing “permitting herself to experience the sickening sense of disappointment”(171). But oh no, she can’t but she can’t feel this way, they’re not from the same social class, &c. In class, we mentioned how Jane may figuratively be the new Age woman; she may go against the social norm and oh that would be so romantic. But! I’m waiting for hell to break lose, bitter feelings to rise, the mysteries solved and the cold to come back. Bronte beats around the bush with the romance between the two because as stated in the introduction, she wants the reader to have sympathy for Jane, which through the language, we have much of.
So...it would appear that being a governess is, as Ms. Clapp said, a fairly miserable job. In preperation for the arrival of the guests, the staff at Thornfield became so busy that Jane had to stop teaching Adele because Mrs. Fairfax had, "pressed [her] into her service, and [she] was all day in the storeroom, helping (or hindering) her and the cook; learning to make custards and cheese-cakes..." (173). I don't believe that being a shorthand cook is part of the duties of a governess (correct me if I'm wrong). Aside from this, Jane and Adele are then shut away upon the arrival of Mr. Rochester and his guests.
As for Malisa's question of the use of the word "incubi" to describe governesses, I believe that it may be Bronte's way of showing Blanche's and the others ignorance (seeing as the female counterparts to incubi are succubi).
As for the mysterious gypsy of chapter 18...I have no idea of what her importance to the story may be. Perhaps she will reveal something important to Jane that will affect the rest of her life/the story.
I have one question. What's with Mr. Mason? He seems to know a bit about Rochester's past.
Well, first to answer Courtney's question about Mr. Mason...He seems to be a character arriving solely for the purpose of revealing more about Mr. Rochester and his past, something that Mr. Rochester wouldn't reveal himself. He calls himself an old friend of Rochester's and even he seems a bit peculiar himself showing up unannounced and basically demanding a place for himself at the party. Maybe Mr. Mason might even know something about Grace Poole and reveal it at the party.
The party too has made Jane stand out as a woman of lower class and it really serves to accentuate the differences between her and the members of the party. I'm not sure why Mr. Rochester wants Jane to be at the parties every night but I can only think that in his ignorance, he thinks Jane will perhaps find enjoyment in these parties; and it does seem as if he still cares for her well-being. Mr. Rochester is at this point like we talked of Jane today in class, hot and cold. One moment he is interested in Jane and the next he barely glances her way and is suddenly cold to her.
As for the gypsy, she is strange, but not really unusual. The whole book is full of unusual and supernatural events. The gypsy is put there to add to the supernatural and to also provide entertainment for the guests. I think she will play an important role in Jane's decision on pursuing Mr. Rochester. Right now Jane feels out of luck, jealous, and even a bit inferior to Blanche Ingram in comparison to beauty and class. The gypsy might encourage Jane with a prediction to act on her feelings and go after Mr. Rochester.
Wow. As usual, lots to comment on.
First, to the idea of being a governess. A lot of people have brought up the chores that go along with it- cooking and such. I don't think this is the "bad" part that Ms. Clapp was talking about. As has been mentioned, Blanche talks bad about being a governess. I remember Ms. Clapp saying that it was the worst job ever, even below the servants because no one would talk to her, just about her. At least the servants were all on one level.
I definitely agree with the prediction of Blanche not marrying Rochester. I alsmost see it as if she came to Thornfield to see the house, etc, getting ready for marriage, but it seems like the gipsy's words aren't going to allow that.
In response to Kevin's comment, I think that the supernatural element is to bring up the idea of the unexplained, and that perhaps a greater force is at work in the story. Not only this, but it also creates another conflict in the story, of reasoning and logic compared to superstition. It's a conflict between having control and succumbing to it. This is probably Jane's main struggle in the book, between showing her true emotion and passion for things and the civilized, accepted way for a young woman to react.
Mr. Mason... he definitely knows something. He walks in like he has an extensive relationship with Rochester. One of the reasons holding back Rochester from Jane is all of the secrets, the mysteries that are kept at Thronfield. Grace Poole, she's paid a lot of money to do something which we're not sure of, but we can tell it's valuable since she gets 5 times more a salary than a well paid servant. The gipsy, there's something odd with her, I agree. I don't think that Rochester would let her... wait, where was Rochester during this whole thing? I was going to say that with Rochester's firm and agressive personality, I don't think that he'd let the gipsy remain if he didn't want her to be there. He has such control and influence oer someone like Jane that I'm sure he'd be able to control the gipsy.
I think mysteries will be revealed. This book seems "Dickens-esque," meaning that as time goes by, we're slowly introduced to new characters that we may think do not fit in at all. But in the end, everyone is connected to everyone else in some way. I just can't wait to see what kind of "service" Grace is providing...
OH MY GODDDD. I had this really long and nicely explained blog for you guys that I took lots of time to edit and spell check and then I saw that they username I was logged on to was someone else's (not using my computer) and after trying to log off, my post got deleted =]. So here is the abridged version...
First, Malisa, I really like your prediction of Grace Poole possibly being Adele's mother. Although books in this time period are supposed to be earnest and predictable, we know the book was controversial at its time, so perhaps the plot was part of that controversy.
Next, to continue along with the weather (hot cold) imagery, I found that on page 172 when Jane is waiting to find out if Rochester's letter says he will be coming back or not. Jane becomes full of emotion because she really wants to see Rochester again, and this emotion seems to be symbolized in the form of her coffee. Bronte states that the coffee was "hot" and Jane had a "fiery glow" in her face. So as I was thinking about heat representeing lots fo emotion, I started on the conclusion that cold represented some lack of emotion or individuality. What I seemed to notice is there is a lot of warm, red, and fiery imagery when Jane is younger and with Mrs. Reed representing her passionate, emotional self. At Lowood however this is contrasted where all the girls are obedient and follow the rules. But remember that it is very cold at Lowood. Jane even seems to conform to this obedient nature at the school, and I feel Bronte is trying to get across that women of her time period were not passionate and emotional and ready to fight for what they stood for, and instead simply conformed to a lack of fire and emotion. I related this to the first page that we explicated in class because Jane notices it is very cold "outside" (representing the rest of the world where women followed the status quo) and she is glad to "not be a part of it", showing that Jane was against conforming to the ideals of her time period. She ends up doing it at Lowood, and then at Thornfield some of her emotions come back (seen by the coffee, and at other instances as well).
So that's it. (if this post gets erased as well i think ill have to go insane.)
Poor Jane. She merely comes down to take care of Adele, and faces such brutal comments from the guests. These comments really exemplify the nature of the higher social class. When Blanche talks about her experience with governesses, it just reminds me of John Reed. While Blanche and Lord Ingram reminisce on how they harassed and made the life of their governess terrible just brings me back to when John Reed would harass Jane. This section also emphasizes the change that Jane has gone through. Back at Gateshead, she fought John Reed back and spat comments at him. Here, she has not said a word and simply takes in all these hateful comments.
I also agree with Kevin about how each scene when Rochester and Blanche play charades is a foreshadowing sign. I think the charades does not just serve to foreshadow, but I also see it as a symbol of how everything is almost like a facade in the upper class. There is no true love in the "romance" between Mr. Rochester and Miss Ingram. They just appear to be the ideal couple because he has money and she is beautiful and has the social status. And, I pretty much agree with everyone that Mr. Rochester isn't really going to marry Blanche.
I would like to continue the conversation on foreshadowing in these two chapters. First of all, as Kevin pointed out, there was charades which I would agree that the game is symbolic of future actions in the book. Jane says that the two will marry but Rochester does not love Ingram or perhaps those are just her jealous feelings towards the woman qualifying an unpleasant marriage. The only thing that would make me think otherwise is at the end of chapter seventeen when Rochester says, "Good-night, my--" then"He stopped, bit his lip , and abruptly left me. However, a purely political relationship does not seem so pleasant. Also, later in chapter eighteen a gypsy arrives and predicts Blanche Ingram's future. Given by her reaction it was not good which is an indicator that some negative action will occur in her future.
To continue on the conversation on Blanche Ingram, it makes sense that there is another character who reveals the social strains in the victorian period which has not been so strongly portrayed since the beginning of the book and her stay at Lowood. I feel like Blanche's purpose in Jane's life is to again challenge her as she is obviously not as important as Blanche, so she thinks. One clear example of Blanche's feelings towards Jane, "'you tiresome monkey! who perched you up in the window to give you false intelligence?' and she cast on me an angry glance, as if I were in fault."
I had no idea that a governess was treated that low before, that she couldn't even be present in a room unless she was asked for. And the people around her view governesses with such detest.
I hated the part where when Jane walked into the room and all the other ladies started talking about how much they hated their governesses. Even, Miss Ingram, who was so beautiful on the outside was so ugly towards Jane, that she "scorned to touch [her] with the hem of her robes as she passed."(197)
Chapter 17 to 18
Upon reading Chapter 17 through 18, Jane now expresses her love for Mr. Rochester (towards the reader, of course) wherein she illustrates her intentions to resist loving him towards the reader, especially when she has rid her “soul of the love germs there detected;(185)”. Brontë’s choice to incorporate this description of love in the anatomy of Jane signals Romantic allusions of how love is as tangible and living as any microorganism. In addition, Jane’s newfound love in Mr. Rochester creates a dimension her character from her previous behavior.
Going deeper into the story, the reader can tell that Blanche Ingram, is the frank, and spirited character as opposed to Jane’s tactful behavior. Throughout Chapter 18, Miss. Ingram’s “air” and behavior has often been repeated wherein she poses the role of a independent woman who rather have her husband play as her “foil” instead of a spouse that rivals against her be controlled by her and influence.
Her influence was visible with Rochester when she would demand of him to sing or to engage in an activity with her.
Governess has such an important air to it, but Jane is treated so despicably!
I agree with the fact that Blanche and Mr. Rochester are probably not going to marry, because of the way she left the gipsy's room. Then again, does Blanche really care about what Mr. Rochester will do? I feel that she doesn't love him the way he does. Maybe I'm just being a hopeful, but I think that Jane and Mr. Rochester might actually be together. It is a complicated social status and money issue, that is just not fair.
I wanted to comment on how Blanche is rude to Jane, but also wanted to add that maybe Blanche finds Jane as a threat? Does Blanche know about the tight relationship that her and Mr.Rochester have? I know during that time people who were in the higher class status treated people like that in lower class status, but I think also that Blanche finds Jane a threat. She obvisouly just wants to marry Mr.Rochester for his money and doesnt want another girl to get in her way.
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