Jane Eyre for 2/4
So what do we think of the mysterious Mr. Rochester? His "friend" Celine? Blanche Ingram? Jane's penchant for secret art?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 7:51 AM
24 comments
So what do we think of the mysterious Mr. Rochester? His "friend" Celine? Blanche Ingram? Jane's penchant for secret art?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 7:51 AM
24 comments
24 Comments:
I want to bring up the fire incident in Mr. Rochester's room. Since they confirmed that the laugh was Grace's, why wouldn't Rochester fire her? Why would she set his room on fire in the first place? Mr. Rochester is quite an odd character.If I were him, I would be fearing for my life.
Celine... Why would Rochester take Adele in, knowing that she is not his daughter? Why would it matter if she had a good upbringing? I think Rochester still loves Celine.
When Jane compares a picture of her to the one she drew of Blanche, she thinks she looks really ordinary. We definitely see Jane's jealousy of Blanche Ingram. I was right in my prediction, Jane does fall for Rochester. Does anyone thing Blanche will play a bigger part in the story later?
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Rochester has seems to have developed an uncomfortable obsession with Jane. The first time he questioned her thoroughly about Lowood and Mr. Brocklehurst (showing a liking for him, which doesn't say much ). Then the next time,he says that he "doesnt wish to treat her like an inferior" (141). This is unlike a normal man of this time period. His actions make him even more unpredictable. Also I think that Adele, reminds Mr. Rochester greatly of Celine, he even calls her a "miniature of Celine Varens" (147), granted they are mother and daughter. I think it even borderline scares him, because he yells at her to stay "away and keep at a distance" (151). I think this is becasue Celine broke his heart and he doesn't want to fall in love with Adele in a fatherly sense, becasue he does not want to make himself vulnerable. All though he does do this to Jane when he tells her the story of Celine.
okay once again my question is about Grace. That laugh that Jane heard again right before she saw the smoke was Graces'. It's such a distinct laugh that Jane knows right away who's it is. Also this laugh occured right before the smoke which means that Grace found joy in setting this fire in Mr.Rochester's room. It's almost as if she is posessed. The stranger thing is how Mr. Rocester reacted. He covered it up and still allows Grace to be in the house. Nothing was even said. I feel as clueless as Jane becasue she is just as dumbfounded.
In response to Lilly's question as to why Mr. Rochester didn't fire Grace right on the spot, I believe that he had some doubt that the laugh belong to Grace. He questions Jane, "'But you heard an odd laugh? You have heard that laugh before, I should think or something like it?'" (159) It struck me as odd that he instinctively questioned as to whether the laugh was familiar to Jane, suggesting that he expected she heard the noise before, even though he had no clue as to Grace was, and was unaware of her presence in the house. The incident supports the supernatural happenings that occur throughout the story, as well as influences whether the audience can trust Mr. Rochester's morale or not.
Hi guys!
Interesting topic about Grace... she is a stange one. As with everything that happens in the book, there is a reason. ANd as to this one, I don't think we've read enough to determine the link Grace has to Rochester, because there probably is one. And Taylor, I don't think that Rochester was clueless, but merely testing Jane out. He says, “Just so. Grace Poole—you have guessed it." Sounds like there's a history here to be uncovered. Rochester obviously is, dare I say, hiding something as he also asks Jane to not inform anyone of what happened that night.
But on to the juicy relationship... I guess the "cinderella-ness" of the novel is developing. Poor girl falls in love with rich guy... just in a less fairy-tale like manner. Here, it seems like Jane is equal in terms of etiquette and intellect but then again, she is his servant, and here is presented another conflict for Jane...
It's interesting the comments that Katie talked about over Grace Poole. I feel like she is guilty. I think that her attitude towards Jane Eyre, the way she questioned her about her room really gave her this edge about her being present at the time of the accident with Mr. Rochester.
I also wanted to comment on how protective Jane seems now towards Mr. Rochester like for example when she screams out in her head "Fiend" when she thinks about what Grace Poole was capable of doing to Mr. Rochester. I feel like he is becoming a really big part of her life as of right. He invades her every thought and I sense that he is just as much intrigued by her as she is by him.
I also wanted to make a comment about what Lily said about Adele not being Mr. Rochester's daughter. I think even though that she isn't his daughter and him knowing that, it showed that he really has a greater side to him, other than that hard shell that he seems to have at first. I pictured him to be this stern man with a very cold heart like Jane had imagined and then he turned into a very "peculiar" man so to say. I think also he kept Adele because he very much cared for Celine even through everything.
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Hello.
...The book is getting way too creepy with that laugh...I have chills...
Okay...so I think that it is way too soon for Jane to be falling for Mr. Rochester, but I do think that they make sense together, since they both had "family troubles" (134)...anyhow, I liked the quote on page 156 where Jane thinks to herself "If he does go, the change will be doleful. Suppose he should be absent spring, summer, and autumn: how joyless sunshine and fine days will seem!" Awwww...it’s so cute.
Starting from these chapters, we start to see Mr. Rochester in a romantic light for Jane…on page 138 where she reviews Mr. Rochester's features, noting that he "looked different to what [she] had seen him look before; not quite so stern--much less gloomy....his eyes sparkled....he had great dark eyes, and very fine eyes, too..."
To talk about Mr. Rochester, I find his life to be so troubling and scary...he is like one of those people who seems to have many enemies and opponents out there, or people with whom he is not on good terms with...like his family, Celine, and apparently Grace.
With the fire and Grace's creepy laugh...I thought the same thing as Katie, when I was reading this, and that is that Mr. Rochester must have been testing Jane in some way...he says "'But you heard an odd laugh? You have heard that laugh before, I should think, or something like it?'" (159). Mr. Rochester seems to be luring Jane into saying the response that he wants...he wants her to think what she is thinking about Grace...it may be some sort of manipulation...who knows.
Although we are reading about Jane finding a liking for Mr. Rochester, I don’t think that we should give in to his character that fast…we don’t really know who he is yet…he may not be a prince charming after all…just because she has a crush on him doesn’t mean that he is a good person…
I think that Rochester is falling in love with Jane faster than she is with him because she is seen as his servant and unequal. I feel that when Rochester says that he wants to see her as his equal, Jane is trying to get used to this idea, but still feels as though this love can not happen because she essentially is of a lower class.
Like Lilly, I was also wondering about Mr. Rochester and Adele's relationship. He claims to not be her father because she looks nothing like him and Celine was fooling around with other men. I find it kind of skeptical just because he takes her into his house when Celine abandons her. Like Annie said, Mr. Rochester seems to try to avoid loving Adele like a daughter, but for some reason I think that he knows that he is Adeles father but can't have anything to do with Celine because she hurt him so much.
The eerie laugh strikes again! Granted, I didn't think it would reemerge so soon.
I'm not quite sure what Grace Poole's purpose is at the moment. Granted, it does at the Gothic element, she must have a bigger purpose. Her lighting fire to Mr. Rochester's room made me think of his room as being a Hell of sorts, with the fire and brimstone of the sort. So by lighting the fire to his room, is she foreshadowing the struggles ahead? Does she have a greater purpose than this?
As for other topics, I wasn't sure what to think of Blanche Ingram so much; while it was said that she was extremely beautiful, when I saw her name was Blanche, I thought of something being blanched out, being rather pale and in a sense, bleached out, watered down. I want to say that she won't play that big of a role, but I think she's significant enough to cause a slight bump in Mr. Rochester and Jane's romance, forbidden or not.
To the comment of what Katie said about Cinderella story. Poor girl falls in love with rich guy. I think Mr.Rochester will fall in love with her, but like Valleygirl said he has an odd obbession with Jane. Jane does like him, but can also sense the weird behavior from him. Everyone says it is his job that makes him that way, but I don't think it should be an excuse everytime.
Also about Grace I do think there is more to Grace than whatever one thinks. She has been working there for sometime and I think her history might unravel later in the book. Also it is just odd how cool Mr.Rochester was about almost being burned to death. I don't know if I was him, I would be freaking out. Also I think Adele is Mr.Rochester daughter. He defintely sees alot of her mother in her and it probably kills him everytime he sees so he wants to keep that distance from her, but at the same time be a father.
Well then... "falling of a horse" could in fact be symbolic-foreshadowing of falling in love. Go figure.
Anyway, I think everyone so far touched upon the clash between Jane and Mr. Rochester's social classes, and their little romantic situation, to some extent. Jane, and Rochester alike, certainly are breaking out of the expectations of society and share feelings for someone of a different social status. Steph commented that maybe "Rochester is falling in love with Jane faster than she is with him," meaning, even more something even more shocking at the time, a wealthy man has fallen hard for a rather poor "servant" if you will.
Jane's wish for a "new servitude" was granted to her in the form of Mr. Rochester, but the relationship is turning from a master-servant one to a more familiar one (romantic). The irony is that Jane doubts the act of breaking the social norms more than Rochester. I feel it's unusual that the poor, servant-class one of the two questions the repercussions of her feelings and not the wealthy one who has "more to lose" so to speak.
Beginning on the bottom of 169, Jane scolds herself for the feelings she has for Rochester and considers them dangerous. It's actually a pretty cruel sort of reality check. Jane thinks of herself as "a Governess, disconnected, poor, and plain." Not too positive, yet it shows that Jane does not consider herself worthy of a man like Rochester, not because she feels she is inferior intellectually (which I think she never has admitted) but financially. She is too "poor" for him, she believes. So in a way, it is a role reversal in that the lower class person is trying to suppress her feelings toward the upper class one.
In response to Lilly's question on "why would Rochester take Adele in, knowing that she is not his daughter?", I feel that this action really shows the good in his character, and even though she is not his daughter, he wouldn't have the heart to just leave her out after being abandoned by Celine.
But even though he had the heart to take her in, he still possesses the 'macho' man qualities, like the other men in his time were like. The kind of qualities that keep him at a distance, and untouchable, even when he talks about Adele. He refers to her as a 'thing' or 'it', "I e'en took the poor thing out of the slime and mud of Paris, and transplanted it here...Mrs. Fairfax found you to train it;"(153)
I'd like to focus on Mr. Edward Rochester, who at this point is nearly murdered in his sleep, in his own hated estate. Ever since Ms. Clapp mentioned the "Byronic hero," I was decided that Mr. Rochester is one. And one of the glaring qualities of the "Byronic hero" is that they keep deep secrets and literally this Mr. Rochester figure is smothered in all of them. He has a mysterious past, has mysterious motives, has a mysterious escape from death, but is falling in love with Jane (I'm positive he is, but that's my opinion). He reminds me a little bit of Jay Gatsby--both the setting of grandeur and their twisted fates. Both have attempts on their life, and both the killers seem to do so out of grudge.
So we have this crazy haunted house setting, (tons of horror movies and horror images and unpleasantness flitted in my mind and made me quite uncomfortable at this part) and a demonic laugh living upstairs. Another Gothic element, ghosts, supernatural. I don't think it's Grace Poole but I'm kind of sure that we'll find out and that this will complicate even more this Byronic hero's love tale. Since we got the heads up that there's lots of symbolism, I think if there's any symbolism content involved in the whole incident it's the water. He may have just been reborn into a love life with Jane, and his irrevocably poisoned heart will turn back to healthier shades by degrees. Indeed, what made him hold her hand with force was more than just a master-paid subordinate manner. (It reminds me of when people say "Oh, I don't get a hug from you?" only this time he asks for her hand, which is a lot of contact for such a time.)
Also perhaps, does the fire symbolize his self-consuming death? Fires eat themselves to death, consuming the flammable material and eating away until it eventually burns out--was this symbolic of Mr. Rochester's own self-consuming loathing of his past and of himself? Perhaps he was letting his sins eat away his heart?
I really love the last part of chapter 16, when Jane draws two portraits, one of herself, and one of Blanche. She draws her own portrait in chalk, "without softening one defect; omit no harsh line, smooth away no displeasing irregularity" and to write underneath it, "Portrait of a Governess, disconnected, poor, and plain."(170)
Then she paints one of Blanche, with the finest paints, on a slate of "smooth ivory" and painted on with the "softest shades, and softest hues"(170). And writes underneath it "Blanche, an accomplished lady of rank."(170)
This shows us how Jane perceives her self image, and how perfect Blanche seems to her. And whenever Jane should even think about Rochester actually having feelings for her, she'd whip those portraits out to compare, and almost hit herself in the face with the realization of how out of his league she is. Which is, what Katie said earlier, like a "cinderella-ness" developing. It really adds to the whole romanticism of the novel.
Or perhaps the putting out of the fire was the symbolic act of Mr. Rochester letting go of his self-consuming loathing of his past. I do agree he has been given a fresh start with Jane and the only reason I can think of him not letting Grace go was that he was too shaken by the events. He seemed confused with Jane, he tells her to go and then when she does, he wants her to stay, etc. But, truthfully I don't think the fire was the most important thing there. I'm focusing more on Grace and her role in the story. I agree with Katie in that we haven't read enough to determine that link but we were right about the laugh and Grace Poole's somewhat significant role(one I think will become larger as time goes on.)
But, I also think it's uncommon of the time for a man of Mr. Rochester's caliber and decency to be conversing with Jane on such a personal level. Governess or not, he is confiding his intimate secrets and past to her; she is a woman and I would think their conversation wouldn't be one for mixed company. I would also think that he wouldn't be able to speak to Blanche Ingram in such a way as he freely speaks with Jane; I don't think etiquette would allow for it. In this sense, I think Jane and Mr. Rochester's relationship would come out stronger in the end and overcome any obstacles like Blanche with the intimate relationship they seem to share. They are both very blunt and honest with one another and they are not considered handsome by normal standards.
Celine was beautiful and a singer; Blanch is also of great beauty and a wonderful singer. Perhaps Mr. Rochester no longer wants a beautiful woman with a beautiful heart since one has already betrayed him. Perhaps he needs more of an average one, but one he is able to converse with, one who he considers his equal.
Mr. Rochester’s character, previous to when he awakens as a Romantic is strange, his mood swings are a pain to Jane and his directness or matter of fact manner illustrate him as smug. Distant, he “sits near the fire, Pilot—Adele knelt near him. Half reclined on a couch appeared Mr. Rochester, his foot supported by a cushion; he was looking at Adele and the dog”(Bronte 126). I imagined a master glancing coldly at his servants and connected this image to Jane’s quest for servitude slowly being fulfilled.
However, there is also softness present in Mr. Rochester, the complicated, tormented man. For example, whenever he calls Adele and Jane into the library, he is always by the fire (a symbol of warmth) that draws others near. He may be cold and distant but Adele doesn’t cease to show her affection. Adele may be a child who doesn’t understand the complication of his situation but she’s intelligent. The two also share a relationship, for example interacting in French is an example of bonding, even though he brushes it off as the “prattle of a child”. Jane as well, is drawn by Mr. Rochester’s warmth. The fire in the bedroom for example as Malisa said illustrates “his room as being a Hell of sorts,” but can also illustrates Jane as being drawn closer to him, because after the incident, the air changes between the two.
Nivele's comment about the fire in Mr. Rochester's bedroom struck me as interesting, how, "perhaps the putting out of the fire was the symbolic act of Mr. Rochester letting go of his self-consuming loathing of his past". We've heard of rain/snow as a symbol for rebirth or growth but maybe Bronte employs fire to symbolize Rochester's past and negativity burning out (Note: the color red and fire seem common in this story).
As for the incident and connections to Grace Pooleit seems odd that she would attempt to kill Rochester and then, at the least, not get fired. And Jane herself, "was amazed - confounded", that Grace had not been charged for the crime (162). I think, like Jane, we are being left out in the dark about something. After all, Rochester went up to the third floor to check and had, "re-entered, pale and very gloomy" (159). It was almost as if he wasn't surprised or angered by what had happened, but saddened. Perhaps he knows something neither we nor Jane know?
Fire is mentioned a lot throughout the novel. From what I can tell fire appears to be a source of comfort to the characters, specifically Jane. Typically fire is used for warmth and has the idea of connecting people, with things like campfires and roasting marshmallows in the fireplace. Bronte writes, "'Come to the fire,' said the master...Mrs. Fairfax had settled into a corner with her knitting; while Adele was leading me by the hand round the room." (128) The image Bronte depicts has a sense of togetherness, with kind of a husband figure, daughter figure, and a mother figure for Jane.
It is ironic that the fire is used to almost kill Mr. Rochester. I think this a symbol that perhaps Mr. Rochester has committed a crime or a sin that could have led him to the firey pits of Hell, but Jane saves him. I'm not quite sure about Grace, but she seems to be a source of confidence for Jane which counters how Jane belittles herself with Blanche.
Then there's Jane's art. Before her painting of the "Governess" and "Blanche", she had three paintings which she presented to Mr. Rochester. Although she says she was happy when she painted them, each almost have a feeling or loneliness or despair (a Gothic theme I suppose). I feel as if these pictures will foreshadow future events and or are symbols of events that have occurred. The painting with the cormorant holding a gold bracelet, with a dead corpse in the water without its bracelet, seems to show that someone will have something valuable stolen from them leaving them dead perhaps internally, much like how Celine stole Mr. Rochester's heart and left him bitter and heart broken.
The laugh that reoccurs everynow and then is highly symbolic of Jane's fears. I don't really understand how it's connected with Grace, and if there is anything we need to learn about her to fully comprehend, but other than that I know that this low rumble is often a sign of distress. I agree with Katie in noting that Grace is somehow connected to Mr. Rochester, and their relationship is a peculiar one indeed.
As for the whol love thing, there is romantic tension between them sometimes, but other times it's completely absent. Mr. Rochester wasn't Adele's father, so what was the link between him and her mother? What is so special about Adele?
I'll have to read and find out...
To go along with what everyone else else has been sayingos far about Mr. Rochester and Mrs. Dalloway's love, it seems from with Jane tells theaudience thatMr. Rochester has a very inconsistent personality and his attitude toward her is dependant on his general attitude. Personally, I don't think that this is really love, and I feel that if he loved her, he would always show this kindness, however perhaps he is showing his love in a different way, or perhaps he does not love her right away.
Something else I seemed to notive was the very extensive dialogue seen in these chapters of the book. It seems as though everytime Rochester and Eyre speak to each other, it could go on forever. Perhaps this is allso meant to show how much the two love each other, because the converse and intereact so much. As for the "demonic" laugh we hear before the fire in Rochester room happens, I think that perhaps Grace and Rochester did have something going on with them when they were both younger and maybe now she is trying to get revenge (Mrs. Clapp said Rochester had some secrets)? My other theory is that it has nothing to do with Grace Poole at all, because that seems to obvious of a choice, however Mrs. Clapp also did say that these stories were very ernest in nature, so maybe obvious is what is happening here.
Something else I seemed to notice was Rochester's annoyance with Adele. It seems like he doesn't like to converse with the child at all. I think this is very ironic since he is the one who chose to take her in in the first place. I feel as though if he took her in, he should show her compassion and love, and because he doesnt do that, he also shares some characteristics as Mrs. Reed, who ignored and pushed aside Jane. This could also be a display of the time period, where children were preferred to be "seen and not heard", but I still think there is a significance to Adele being reated similar to Jane in early childhood. We will have to read the book and find out, I guess.
Well…My experience on the Chapters 13-16, I noticed several allusions to witches that Mr. Rochester used in regard to Jane, as well as several references to religion such as the fallen seraph in the abyss”(145) as well as “Job’s leviathan”(151) that helps as a metaphor towards Jane and Mr. Rochester. The elements of the Byronic Hero were everywhere since the introduction of Mr. Rochester in Chapter 13, wherein at the last two paragraphs has scene where Jane is trying to find the root of his “peculiar” disposition. To Jane’s knowledge, she finds out the feud between Mr. Rochester and his family. In addition, when she request for more on this story, Mrs. Fairfax tells her to “drop the subject”(135). Upon getting that reaction, one reader can state that Jane was the proverbial curious protagonist that seeks to figure out a mysterious character such as Mr. Rochester.
Next, Mr. Rochester’s portrayal of the Byronic Hero manifests itself during the key discussions between him and Jane. Most significant is his dialogue of a clean conscience or a pure soul. (143-145) In its entirety, the narrative echoed the recognizable story of an innocent, virgin-like character like Jane that contrasts with a tortured, cynical character like Mr. Rochester.
Moreover, the message that Mr. Rochester brings with how “remorse is the poison of life”(144) is how his guilt has caught up to thus fostering regret. The metaphor that he places remorse is that of the sentiment that hinders him from looking forward to life.
I've noticed that Mr. Rochester holds all the qualities of a Byron hero. He's not that handsome and is very rude with conversing with Jane and Adele. He also rejects the idea of Jane in servitude of him, which suggests that she is an equal.
I would have to agree that fire is a source of comfort for many of the characters, but also I beleive that it is specifically attributed to Jane. On top of that, I've noticed that ice is menioned many times throughout the novel and is an occuring description of the landscape, perhaps as a contrast to the fire as it may symbolize distance and lonliness.
Also I don't believe that laugther that was heard is Grace's, but instead a character that hasn't been revealed yet. I believe that Rochester is hiding something (which fits into the Byonic hero characteristic) as the maids acted casual the next day despite their master being almost burned alive.
First of all, I disagree with Danny that Mr. Rochester and "Mrs. Dalloway" are not falling in love... mainly because Mr. Rochester has his eyes on Jane or atleast it seemed so until he brought home Blanche.
Anyways I would like to continue the conversation on the fire that occured that could have nearly killed Mr. Rochester. Once again Jane Eyre comes to the rescue of Rochester except this time he has not fallen from a horse but from a fire. The last time fire was brought up was in the house hold of Mrs. Reed and was used to contrast Jane's personality to the cold, bitter environment of the house hold. Seeing that it is fire that nearly kills Mr. Rochester perhaps it will be Jane that somehow hurts Rochester. However, I would also agree with Kevin that fire could be the manifestation of Rochester's guilt, that is enough to kill him.
In this section Jane's feelings are revealed about Rochester and it seemed that Rochester was fond of Jane only until he brings home Blanche. Rochester also let's Jane in on his unappealing past which are all evidence to support declaring Rochester as a Byronic hero. I feel like Blanche will be the spitting image of the societal lady that Jane has failed to embody all her life forcing Jane to become more self-critical and perhaps go through further development.
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