Jane Eyre
For the post due 2/2...what do you think of Jane's "new servitude"? Adele? Mr. Rochester? What gothic or romantic elements are you picking up on?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 10:30 AM
27 comments
For the post due 2/2...what do you think of Jane's "new servitude"? Adele? Mr. Rochester? What gothic or romantic elements are you picking up on?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 10:30 AM
27 comments
27 Comments:
Well...something I'd like to comment on very quickly of Jane's new behavior in the 10th chapter. It's remarkable to see the change that Jane's undergone. She's 16 now and a teacher and she actually strives to act properly. When she sent her letter off to the Shire Herald and received a response, she actually worried about "getting into a scrape", and have her actions be as Jane put it, "respectable, proper, en regle"(Eyre 91). Jane has never really cared to be anyone one of these things, but her experience at Lowood and Miss Temple have definitely helped her along.
But...while Jane seems proper on the outside, there is a definite contrast to those feelings on the inside. With Miss Temple's departure from the school, she feels trapped now at Lowood. Romanticist elements coming into play here are her emphasis on her feelings of "discontent" and "restlessness" in Lowood and even in Thornfield, "I could not help it; the restlessness was in my nature; it agitated me to pain sometimes"(Eyre 114). Jane is full of romantic elements or notions, "I had a theoreticla recerence and homage for beauty, elegance, gallantry, fascinaiton..."(Eyre 119).
As for Gothic elements, Thornfield definitely fits the bill. Even the way Jane describes her journey to Thornfield is dark and creepy,"The roads were heavy, the night misty", (Eyre 99). Gothic elements include castles and Thornfield with its "battlements" is always dark and even Jane dislikes returning to "...stagnation, to cross the silent hall, to ascend the darksome staircase, to seek my own lonely little room..."(Eyre 122). The references to ghosts in Thornfield Hall and even the "Gytrash newfoundland-dog" are all elements of gothic literature.
Well, what has anyone else noticed so far? Also, why do you think Mr. Rochester didn't introduce himself to Jane Eyre?
Nivele, in response to your comment about Jane's restless nature, I'd like to pull out this passage:
"It is vain to say human beings ought to be satisfied with tranquility... but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts as much as their brothers do..." (114-115)
I saw this passage as particularly bold given its context in the Victorian Era, bold like Abigail Adams to John Adams. Here we are given a portrait of a restless lady who needs to latch her faculties onto something more than just being a simple governess. And then we also have Mrs. Dalloway, aspiring to the power and reputability of Bourton, and Mrs. Brown who was so inflamed by her poetic flame that it couldn't be contained in a cake. I wonder if this passion which is teeming over its brims will find itself in Mr. Rochester?
As for the Gothic elements, there is almost a repetition of some of the grandeur of the Reed's house. I keep recalling elements and images from Wuthering Heights, as I'm sure that group will see over and over again. (In fact, the author of that book is this author's sister.) I'm guessing if anything that some of its events will repeat itself here, such as the "red room" and the room presented on page 110, and some of the character conflict between the Reeds and herself. I'm not sure about you, but the unmistakable easiness makes me uneasy. There's gotta be some conflict soon.
Wow! Kevin, I was thinking the exact same thing when I came across this part of the novel. It defiantly has a feel of The Hours' Laura Brown and Virginia Woolf. Virginia Woolf can't stand the country side and is driven (even more) insane by the tranquility as is Laura Brown in her suburban stagnant life. The time periods of the two are drastically different, but I agree that they are comparable in that feeling they depict. I can also see why you would see the passage as "inappropriate" for the Victorian period, but I think the whole book is a bit "inappropriate" in that sense. Jane certainly isn't a good-little-girl as a child and the novel also doesn't depict the Catholic religion in too positive of a light with Mr. Brocklehurst (whose name sounds surprisingly like broccoli, but that's probably a coincidence.)
I'd like to discuss the closing of Chapter 12 and the arrival of "Master" Rochester. The way his background is depicted is not quite flattering; after the description we are given, I expect him to be a dragon on Jane's quest. So we know that Mr. Rochester "has had an accident" after "his horse fell, and [that] his ankle is sprained." (123) Since ice is not ice and a sprained ankle is not a sprained ankle, I wonder why Bronte chose this accident for Mr. Rochester... My theory is that, like ice, Mr. Rochester will turn out to be unstable and will cause Jane a "sprain" or some sort of downfall (literally as Mr. Rochester fell down on the ice.) The other possibility is that he will "fall" for Jane or "fall" in love with her. This again could bring up problems as it would stir up the social class hierarchy that is so important during this time in Europe. Any thoughts?
Well, in response to Dario, I do possibly think Mr. Rochester could fall in love first and the conflict Kevin's looking for appear this way
: Mr. Rochester falls in love and Jane stirs everything up by breaking the social class order.
Jane never belonged as a child, never properly "fit in". Her job as a governess insures she won't fit in as one of the poor, yet she still doesn't belong as one of the rich or upper class citizens. Certainly her love for Mr. Rochester will cause a scandal yet I'm not sure who would really oppose at this point. Everyone in the house is accepting of Jane and I can definitely see that when Jane and Mr. Rochester try to be with one another that everyone might turn on Jane. Or perhaps Jane will try to prove to Mr. Rochester that she is fit for him, even though she isn't of the same class as him.
Something else I noticed, Adele also seems like a spirited child and too bold for being a little girl or a girl in general. She's very outspoken and obviously she has some similarities to Jane; being an orphan and having a ward to take care of her. What do you guys think of Adeles nature, or what else have you picked up on her so far?
I agree with Tainara in the fact that Adele does seem awfully similar to Jane in both their circumstances, as well as their outspoken personalities. I can't help but wonder if she'll have a bigger role in the future, or if she's just there to represent what Jane could of had?
Also, I noticed the fact that throughout the novel so far, the major shifts in Jane's life and personality have resulted in Jane moving to a new location; her time at Gateshead was her negative experience, her time at Lowood was her learning experience, and now her time at Thornfield is her growing period, where it's likely that she'll come into herself as a character. I also wondered about the naming of the locations. Gateshead was in a way, her ticket into Lowood, which was a growing experience, like how things grow and flourish in the forest when nurtured by sunlight and mother nature. With the name of Thornfield, I can't help but think that Jane has some struggles ahead of her before she can reach her peak of happiness, or as Kevin and Dario noted earlier, their "tranquility."
While I'm pretty sure that a Gothic element seen in Jane Eyre is the presence of the "other-worldly" aspects, such as the supposed ghost if Mr. Reed, and that creepy laugh by Grace (who I have a feeling will make a reappearance later in the book). Now with Bessie's tale of the Gytash and it's purpose to scare "belated travelers" in the form of a mule, dog, or horse, I'm a bit confused at the potential greater meaning here, since I'm sure that it's presence isn't merely for the Gothic element alone. Thoughts, anyone?
I noticed that the refrence to the gothic style was commented on and I really wanted to talk more about this. At the begining of the story, there are already many refrences to ghosts and supernatrual beings being talked about. And now that the books is progressing and Jane is getting older this still seems to be a concern with Jane. "So I think. You have no ghosts then?" "None that I ever heard of,"returned mrs. Fairfax, smiling. "Nor any traditions of one? No legends or ghost stories"(p 111), shows the concern that Jane is really seeking to see if anything here will remind her of that experience of being locked up in the supposed hanunted room. Even now that she is working away as a governess and teacher she still has these fears hidden within her.
I also wanted to comment on the fact that it seems to me that she is so young to already become a governess. I don't really understand if that is just because of the time. In that time is it normal for a girl to already become a governess at the age of 16? Not only being a governess but also taking care of Adele and being there for her, it's such an immense responsibility.
Hello.
To respond to the comments...I have to say that I completely agree with Dario's comment about Mr. Rochester's way of entrance into Jane's life to be symbolic of their possible future relationship together. I feel that Jane and Mr. Rochester will be strange in many ways...simply going by the way that they had become acquainted with one another, as well as their age difference: Jane is 16, while Mr. Rochester is stated as looking about 35. I am curious to see how this will all unfold and what kind of epic situation will arise.
To respond to Nivele and Malisa's comments--you guys totally took the thoughts out of my head on Adele. I believe that Bronte created Adele's character as a sort of flashback to Jane's own youth. I think that Jane may have the same positive role model-like effect on Adele, as Miss Temple had on Jane...just a thought.
...Oh, and Malisa, I too think the creepy laugh is getting ready for a return...Also, everyone talking about these "dark" and "gothic" elements at Thornfield, as well as the comment Analu made about the “ghost” still haunting Jane’s memory, I can't help but be reminded of Gateshead...Thornfield may turn out to be very similar.
Okay...moving on to page 95, I would like to talk about the conversation that took place between Jane and Bessie...
"' I am afraid you are disappointed in me, Bessie?' I said this, laughing. I perceived that Bessie’s glance, though it expressed regard, did in no shape denote admiration. 'No, Miss Jane, not exactly. You are genteel enough; you look like a lady, and it is as much as I ever expected of you; you were no beauty as a child.'"
I am not sure whether Miss Bessie is talking about Jane's childhood appearance or attitude. If she is talking about her attitude, then I find that to be completely unfair, given she was a perfectly kind child who was being tormented by everyone. I find it to be so interesting how everyone in the Reed household has ended up, I guess you could say, "unlucky," while Jane is now the talented painter, the one that is fluent in French, and the one who can play the piano...she is the "lucky" one. It's as though karma has come back to haunt the Reed family.
I am curious as to why Mr. Eyre came to visit Jane 7 years ago? Will he be a revisiting character?...who knows?
...thanks
Kevin brought up the passage on page 114-115 that I wanted to discuss. The quote Kevin presented, "It is vain to say human beings ought to be satisfied with tranquility... but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts as much as their brothers do..." expresses a very un-Victorian way for an young lady to think, contrasting with the descriptions of the new property of which she lives. As Dario inquired on what is to become of the relationship between Jane and her employer, I think that there will be some kind of unconventional relationship or issue that evolves in the house. The injury Mr. Rochester froms suggests this irregularity, along with Jane acting outside her expected gender role of the time and fearlessly helping Mr. Rochester with his horse.
I also noticed many similarities between Jane Eyre and my group's independent reading book, The Turn of the Screw. Both stories have a narrating governess, who consider themselves to be alone in the world. Also similar are the Gothic and Romantic descriptions and supernatural occurrences. Ms. Clapp brought up before we started reading that there is a fair share of supernatural occurrences in the novel. Besides Jane's encounter when she is locked up by Mrs. Reed in the beginning of the novel, has anyone else noticed anything significant regarding the supernatural?
Yes, Kevin you are right our group has made numerous connections between our book and Jane Eyre.
I would like to discuss Grace. She is a bit odd and random. So I figured that she must have some kind of significance. I thought that her actions were somewhat supernatural. The reason being was when Grace actually answered, Jane was kind of surprised because the laughter had been "a preternatural laughter as any [she] had ever heard"(112). I think to answer Taylor's question I think this is definetly a symbol of supernatural activity. Mrs. Fairfax dismissed this saying basically that Grace was just ditsy, but I do think that the way Jane felt about her laughter means much more.
I also agree that Mr. Rochester is going to give Jane some trouble. I was thinking that he may have been to embarassed to have introduce him self to her. For a man to fall off his horse that can hurt ones pride. To be so vulnerable on a first occasion meeting, can make a male feel as though the women has the upperhand, becasue they have seen them at their weakness. Mr. Rochester seems like the stubborn hard headed type. I have somewhat of a feeling that Dario may be right about Mr. Rochester falling for Jane but I wonder if it will have the same ideas of that of Pride and Prejudice. His mistreatment of her could be that he does not want to show her he as feelings becasue that would also be a blow to his status.
Okay, I wanted to talk about is Mr. Rochester. When Jane first meets him she notices that he has a gloomy face and stern features. I thought since people were questioning the part that he'll play in this story, I'll give an opinion and say that this imagery makes it seem that he is a dark character. I think that he may change after meeting Jane. Wuthering Heights is written by Emily Bronte and their plots can be alike so that's why I'm thinking that about Mr. Rochester.
Also, a couple of people have talked about the genres and to me it seems that this novel fits into the Gothic and Romantic genre because as Charlotte Bronte is using a lot of gloomy imagery and supernatural events, the idea of love or the love that some one yearns for (Jane wanting love from her new family) is expressed in the novel.
I just wanted to mention something that I noticed after we talked about the whole transition from romanticism inro Victorianism. Ms. Clapp mentioned that the Victorian era was very much like the queen herself-- frilly, pretentious, loved petticoats and corsets...
I thought that it was funny that Bronte mentions the housekeeper as "a woman after Mr. Brocklehurst's own heart,made up of equal parts of whalebone and iron." (73) These are the same materials that Victorian corsets were made out of, and this is an evident clue to the changing of ideas in that era.
Speaking of which I wanted to move on to the role of women. Many here are questioning the fact that Jane really became a teacher and a governess at such a young age. It's hardly believable, but children even younger than her were set to work day and night for a wage to bring home. Ms. Clapp also mentioned the uprise of nursing for women since it was the most appealing out of the narrow variety they could choose from. Being a teacher was also one of those jobs, and I believe that in this fashion Jane is looking back on her childhood and and setting herself free from those limitations. This idea is her own genuine desire, to be an independent woman.
There definitely seems to be a good amount of Gothic imagery, especially with the description of Thornfield which Jane describes as covered by shadows and fog which also contrasts her feelings about the inside which are “warm and cozy.” I was wondering what that creepy and mysterious laughter heard in the manor might be. Does it have to do with something of the supernatural? Or is it some secret Mrs. Fairfax is keeping since she tells Grace to make less of the noise and “remember directions”
I would have to agree with Dario’s views on Mr. Rochester’s introduction that portrays him to be a bit clumsy. I don’t see the sprain, however, to be symbolic of him being a burden to Jane but instead that it exposes vulnerability in Mr. Rochester which goes against the view of what a man should be like in this period. With that sprained ankle, along with her bland face and demeanor Mr. Rochester will probably be brought down to Jane’s level. He seems to only has his wealth going for him, wonder if that is going to disappear too some time soon…
It seems so far that the men in the book are a hindrance to Jane. From John Reed bullying her to Mr. Brocklehurst's cruelty toward her at Lowood, it appears that Jane has negative experiences involving men.
Perhaps it is because of the gender roles of the time but a majority of her bad experiences seem to invvolve men. My question is whether Mr Rochester will be a positive or a negative influence on Jane's life? Will he, "be a dragon on Jane's quest", as Dario said or could he become a love interest?
As for Jane's quest, it seems that, so far, that it has been about her being accepted. Not being accepted by Mrs. Reed, finally being accepted at Lowood only to have Helen die and Ms. Temple marry and leave. Will her time at Thornfield grant her acceptance?
I think that Kevin brought up a part of one of the most important passages in the book: "It is vain to say human beings ought to be satisfied with tranquility... but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts as much as their brothers do..." (114-115).
So far, we've talked about how this passage shows the "rebellion" of Jane Eyre in the time it was written, which is very bold. Because I did my Research Paper last year on Virginia Woolf, I definitely see the connection in the feminists. Woolf tried to not only advocate women's rights, but also in her book A Room of One's Own , she talks about a single sex person (autonomy or something like that), where people are just people who need creative outlets, no matter their sex, which happens to go along with the quote.
But I also think that the information around this quote is particularly important. Before this Jane says, "I could not help it; the restlessness was in my nature; it agitated me to pain sometimes" (114). Bronte creates an image of isolation once again, making Jane pace "backwards and forwards" (114). It's like she is trapped in that big house. The Gothic elements add to this meaning, how it's cold, big, dreary etc. It's probably not the place where Jane is going to feel liberated as a woman or free from her isolated and restrained role as a woman.
This whole paragraph is where Jane includes all women in her feeling of isolation, how they "feel just as men feel." She clearly challenges the values of the times by ironically advocating to go against the confinement of "making puddings and knitting stockings, to playing on the piano and embroidering bags" (115).
This just introduces another conflict in the book: does Jane want to be completely equal with men or does she want to define herself in its set of values (a new servitude)?
I wanted to comment on some of the supernatural mentionings. She mentions alot about fairy tales and things that Bessie used to read to her when she was a little girl. Even as a young adult she still has this vivid imagination. Also when she speaks about the rooms in the house she is staying I think those dark rooms remind of the time when Mrs.Reed locked her in there and she saw the "ghost". I just get the feeling that she is somewhat still tramautized from that experience.
Also on page 111 when jane says " after life fitful fever they sleep well". That kinda stuck out to me. I want to say that it might have some type of connection to Mr.Rochester's personality, but then again i can be wrong. Or it can foreshadow to something else in the novel?
I'd like to expand on Analu's comment about how Jane Eyre's desire is to be "an independent woman" with a quote:
"Nobody knows how many rebellions besides political rebellions ferment in the masses of life which people earth. Women are supposed to be very calm generally: but women feel just as men feel; they need exercise for their faculties, and a field for their efforts as much as their brothers do;..." (115)
I feel that since Jane's 'new servitude', she's matured so much more, and has become so much more aware of the importance of being a independent, and strong woman. In this quote, she talks about how women have the same qualities, and same wants and needs as men. Which is something that most women at the time wouldn't even have thought about. I believe, Jane Eyre is a true feminist of her time. I think being with Mrs. Fairfax, and seeing the kind of life she leads, makes Jane realize her desire to lead a life with more freedom.
While reading chapter 10 in particular, I paid attention to register. Jane uses prison register to describe her life at the Lowood. She says, “I remained an inmate in these walls for eight years….During these eight years my life was uniform”(Bronte 86). These words suggest that Jane is trapped at the school and relates back to the idea of servitude. When Miss Temple leaves the institution however, the tread is cut, freedom granted. However, going further on this idea of servitude, I’ve observed that although Jane says, “I desired liberty; for liberty grasped; for liberty I uttered a prayer,”(Bronte 88) her actions do not imitate what she says. I believe that although Jane seeks a certain liberty, she walks a linear path where she’ll eventually find herself trapped. She was trapped at Gateshead, at the Lowood, and now as a governess, soon I predict in marriage. I also believe there’s the element that Jane cannot live for herself and must seek out servitude; she says, “Grant at least a new servitude!”(Bronte 88). As Courtney stated, Jane’s mission of being accepted also goes hand in hand with my idea that it is also her mission to always find new servitude.
I actually enjoyed reading this so far, a surprise I know. I also noticed that when Jane moves to a different place, her attitude changes as well. I see that as her maturing and gaining more experience. Her experience is different than most women, which emphasize more that she is an outcast.
I think Adele is really spoiled and Grace, she seems really creepy, there must be a really good reason for her to be in the story. Rochester would be a stereotypical rich, rude man. I think she’s going to fall in love with him, its like the “opposites attract” concept. Women in books and movies always seem to go for the guys that have attitudes.
As Jane finds a "new servitude", there is great change of scenery. Back at the school, everything was so plain, due to the fact that it was a religious school. Therefore, no one could wear anything really pretty, and Mr. Brocklehurst made a fuss over a girl's curly, red hair, and such. However, in Thornfield, the house is extremely extravagant. The rooms are described to have "polished furniture in the most pleasant radiance" (123) and "walnut-panelled walls, one vast window rich in stained glass" (108). Not to mention, the color purple is brought up quite a few times in the descriptions of the rooms.
From my knowledge, purple is viewed as a regal, royal color. Although, Jane Eyre is working for this somewhat brash man, and is under a "new servitude", she seems almost empowered in Thornfield, maybe not as a queen but more so than when she was in Lowood and Gateshead. As people mentioned before, she is independent, intellectual, and as the governess, she takes on this immense responsibility for educating Adele. By the way, I think Adele is quite amusing with her almost need to expose her talents. Again, I agree with Tainara and Malisa that Adele is very similar to Jane.
Previously, Bessie mentions that there really isn't anything all that great about Jane. Although she is grown to be talented, that she is still plain in looks. Jane describes Adele to have "no great talents, no marked traits of character" (113). However, just as Jane has transformed, I think Adele will grow up into an interesting character.
Well first off, I would like to draw attention to the short reunion of Bessie and Jane Eyre. What I find interesting and predict will become integral to the story is th mentioning of Janes' "father's brother" (96). Although not much is mentioned about him, I am sure that him being mentioned and also the discussion about her family's occupation status will also be very important. I was thinking that maybe the Eyre family will find Jane one day and be extremely rich, but I don't know how that would make sense...
Anyway, something that really stuck out to me (besides the laughter in the hallway), was how Jane Eyre feels resltess after Miss Temple decides to take her leave. I find this moment in the story to be interesting because we already know that Miss Temple seems to represent kindness and caring, which not many people in this story so far have. When Temple leaves however, Jane finds her "reason for tranquility was no more" (87), and with this I think she leaves in order to find a new tranquility, her "new servitude" (88). It is for this reason I don't see Jane's expereinces at Thornfield to be very similar to her previous life (as mentioned by someone above), because I feel as though when Jane was with Mrs. Reed she felt enslaved and isolated and had no control in the matter, here Jane is choosing her servitude and seems tobe enjoying lifeat Thronton so far.
This may be a bit obvious, but I think we should all be paying attention to names as well, because I think all the names are very symbolic, Miss Temple (temple- kindness), Mr. Brocklehurst (well, it just sounds mean doesn't it?), and others.
I would like to further the conversation on the relationship between Jane and Rochester.
Jane first encounters Master Rochester outside the house where he had fallen off his horse in the middle of the woods. This "accident" characterizes the MAN as completely helpless meaning Jane, a WOMAN, comes to his aid, who is a mere stranger at the moment. Jane is in the position of aiding the fallen Rochester, which I feel reveals the type of interaction that will be played throughout the rest of the book. Rochester is the fallen, and will need help and Jane will be the one helping Rochester. So, as Dario had mentioned about the accident Rochester is fallen and injured and it will be Jane there to save him, helping him back on to his horse if you will.
In this way, I feel like gender roles have been altered somewhat. Jane felt that "he drew her to him for help" defining Rochester as helpless or less masculine merely because he did not seem valiant, handsome, or some other kind of masculine quality. She states that "had he been a handsome, heroic- looking young gentleman, I should not have dared to stand thus questioning him against his will and offering my services unasked ... but had I met those qualities in masculine shape..." implying that Jane does not see Rochester as masculine whatsoever mainly due to the degrading accident.
All through Chapter Ten through Twelve, follows Jane’s present outlook after the following events Eight years after Helen Burns death, It shows her at her most melancholic. The reader now finds that Miss. Temple has left the Lowood Institute has now left without any sympathetic persons there to console her now that she is alone. Jane’s present view of her situation has her lose zeal and purpose at Lowood.
The narration that Jane supplies In Chapter 10 conveys her monotony of her setting at Lowood when she regards herself as “an inmate of its walls”(86) for eight years. This remark then creates her urgency to find a change of scenery from the institution. In my opinion, her purpose of remaining there was pointless after Miss. Temple had left which then had her return to her former angst as a child in Gateshead. Soon her aspirations of leaving Lowood, to seek “a new servitude”(88) are Jane’s prime objective.
P.S. Does anybody think Helen Burns is a potential Christ Figure? If you already covered this, you don’t have to reply.
Once again, As for the Gothic and Romantic allusions in The chapters, Her reference to "corridors in Blackbeard's castle"(112)The overall description of Thornfield to have similarity as a church when she uses such as "relics" and "palm branches and cherubs" To indicate a hallowed ground type of feeling.
More on this later.
Once again, As for the Gothic and Romantic allusions in The chapters, Her reference to "corridors in Blackbeard's castle"(112)The overall description of Thornfield to have similarity as a church when she uses such as "relics" and "palm branches and cherubs" To indicate a hallowed ground type of feeling.
More on this later.
To comment on the question on whether Helen Burns is a Christ figure, I would propose this passage:
As she was being chastises during class in fornt of all other to see, she,"neither wept nor blushed: composed, though grave, she stood, the central mark of all eyes." Remind you of any crucifications?
Another would be from when she is dying:
"I believe God is good; I can resign my immortal part to Him without any misgiving. God is my father; God is my friend: I love Him; I believe He loves me.”
She is portrayed to show love no matter what faces her. This is shwon in contrast to Jane, who is frustrated at the way she is punished.
From this I would say that she definitely is a Christ figure, the wasy that she accpets her suffering, is very similar to the stories of Jesus. I then question, what Bronte had to say about figure such as this, for her main character, Jane, certainly is no Jesus Christ.
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