Jane Eyre Chapters 22-23
Scary, scary...what do you think is going on here?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 12:42 PM
24 comments
Scary, scary...what do you think is going on here?
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 12:42 PM
24 comments
24 Comments:
oh my God! my first reaction. I wasnt really expecting this. I mean wow!
Ok so while this whole romantic scenario is going on the weather around them isn't that great. I mean once Jane says yes to marrying Mr.Rochester, the moon wasn't out and it starts to down pour. Then Adele comes in early in the morning to tell Jane that the chestnut tree had been strucked by lighting and it is split half way.
Throughout the book the weather plays a big role especially around Jane. You'd think since she was being proposed to, the weather would be beautiful, but its not. I know this is the foreshadowing (especially of the tree) that something will happen to them in the future. Or is towards the present of how Mr.Rochester is not marrying Blanche?
I don't think that it is towards the present, I feel as if Blanche is no longer a worrying force. Certainly she could try to split the two up, but for what? All she wanted is his money and now she believes that he has none, so Blanche has no reason to try and separate the two.
But, I do agree with it being a foreshadowing of the future of the pair. I don't think anything bad or harmful will happen to the two, but their positions in life has definitely set the two up for difficulties along the road. I believe pretty much everyone in Rochester's circle will oppose the idea of their marriage, since Jane is one of lower status. Maybe even the servants and Mrs. Fairfax might turn against Jane and think her pompous and arrogant; they could think Jane believes she is above them since she is marrying the master of the house. There will definitely be some tension between Jane and the other servants; and between Mr. Rochester and his circle of friends.
But with Jane's marriage to Mr. Rochester, it changes everything in the house. Not only will her position change, but Adeles future as well. Adele was going to be sent away, but now she can even stay since Jane and Adele are fond of one another. Perhaps Jane and Mr. Rochester might even raise Adele together. Ok, a little too romantic there, but it's definitely possible now that Blanche is not going to be the mistress of the house.
Awww, chapter 23 was definitely my favorite part of the book so far!
In reply to what Ashley said, I'm not surprised at all that the weather during the proposal turned less than ideal when it began to pour, since this is Jane Eyre who is getting married, not Mary Sunshine. When Jane returned to the house, it seemed to me as if it was the first time in the entire novel that Jane finally gave into love and let her guard down. She admitted that Thornfield was her home, and that she did have a desire to be with Adele and Mrs. Fairfax, and in her acceptance of Mr. Rochester's approval, admitted that she loved him. It would have been very out of character for Jane to accept Mr. Rochester's proposal with an embrace and a kiss on the cheek and a blunt yes, which is why I believe that Bronte chose to end the chapter with, "Before I left my bed in the morning, little Adele came running in to tell me that the great horse-chestnut at the bottom of the orchard had been struck by lightning in the night, and half of it split away." (276) This rare occurrence I believe represents the rare occurrence of Mr. Rochester blindly deciding to marry out of his class. It reflects the hardships the couple is likely to endure, specifically with the splitting of the tree demonstrating the harsh differences in social status.
At last what we were all waiting to happen has finally happened...Jane and Mr. Rochester are set to be married.
First off, Ash, you brought up a great point about the lightning, and the weather not being as happy and sun shiny as would be expected for a newly engaged couple. I do think that this reveals hints about their future relationship together, since even though they have just been engaged, their whole relationship has been far from normal throughout this entire novel, and seems to entangle some sort of lies, fakeness, etc. If we would expect everything to be perfect, then I am sure the novel would end right here.
I would like to talk about the situation on page 273:
"'Am I a liar in your eyes?' he asked passionately. 'Little sceptic, you shall be convinced. What love have I for Miss Ingram? None: and that you know."
It’s true. I feel as though it is known that Mr. Rochester loves Jane...however, I do not doubt that there are lies or at least secrets that he possesses, which could ultimately change their relationship. In their conversation on page 273, Jane doubts Mr. Rochester's honesty, and I don't blame her...him and his gypsy games, as well as the whole creepy stuff going on with Grace Poole...he may not be a liar, but he is definitely not addressing things.
Of course everything has ended up the way we expected... earlier, I was wondering why Mr. Rochester was going to go on marrying Blanche Ingram, even though he discovered her true colors during the little "gypsy game," but now that he says that he wants to be with Jane, I can’t help but believe him, even though I know that I probably shouldn’t.
Well...I would like to say that I was suprised but it seemed a bit obvious that after his little "gypsy" stunt that Rochester wouldn't marry Blanche.
Anyway...
Though it begins to rain shortly after Mr. Rochester proposes, the chapter had started out pleasantly, " A s[plendid midsummer shone over England: skies so pure,suns so radiant as were then seen in long succession...." (265). I beieve that, like the lighting splitting the tree in half, the weather change right after Rochester proposes is a sign that all may not be well with the future of Jane and Rochester.
Also, I agree with Marrisa regarding Rochester and lies. Like Marrisa said she did,"not doubt that there are lies or at least secrets that he possesses, which could ultimately change their relationship", neither do I. Remember, theres still the whole secret about Grace Poole and the attack on Mr. Mason that Rochester has yet to reveal to Jane.
I really wish I could say that I saw all the signs pointing to a marriage proposal, but I’d be lying. As for the symbolism used, it’s clear that all is not going to go to plan, and that this won’t end in a “happily ever after.” After all, the book’s only about two-thirds finished; what else would the other third of the book be about if it ended happily?
I have to wonder myself on whether the story will end happily, or if it will end in misery. While the idea that it will end tragically, like Ethan Frome did is a common idea, but after the care and consideration in to painting Jane as a figure women should relate too, I find it hard to believe that it’ll end with misery for her.
Touching upon the chestnut tree, it’s clearly a foreshadowing on what’s to come of the couple, since it was the tree the couple was sitting under the night before. In particular, the line that the chestnut tree “had been struck by lightning in the night, and half of it split away.” (277) has me thinking about the particular use of the term that only half of it was split away, rather than being described as split down the middle. To me this seems as if one of the two will be taken away, probably by force considering the lightning.
I also looked up potential symbols that the chestnut stood for, and considering religion plays a rather significant role in the story, one possibility stood out to me the most. The chestnut is supposed to represent chastity and goodness, but can also stand for triumph over temptation. The fact that technically speaking, both gave into the temptation that was each other makes me think that by splitting the tree in half, shows how they fell into that temptation, and how trouble might be ahead for Jane and Mr. Rochester.
Hi.
Relating to Courtney's blog, I believe that “the chapter had started out pleasantly”(Courtney's comment), because of what was to come: the proposal, which can be viewed as a happy moment, but Jane saying yes, and then the horrible weather coming, says that her choice to marry Mr. Rochester was wrong.
In addition, I completely agree with Malisa’s comment: “the care and consideration in to painting Jane as a figure women should relate too, I find it hard to believe that it’ll end with misery for her.” This made me see that Jane could possibly end up with a happy life, very different from what we have known her life to be like so far.
Again, Malisa, the whole thing about the chestnut makes sense…they had both, like you said, given in to temptation, which also means that situations will get more chaotic.
I am curious as to whether or not Adele “running in to tell [Jane] that the great horse-chestnut at the bottom of the orchard had been struck by lightning in the night…” (276) plays a significant role? I know Adele was mentioned in some of the blogs, but is Bronte trying to tell us something by having Adele let Jane know that “goodness” (as Malisa said) is gone?
So far, I completely agree with all of the imagery and theories you guys are forming about the weather, something bad happening, and Rochester still having skeletons in his closet... Something I would like to bring up however, is not specific to these two chapters but to the book as a whole I feel, and seems to foreshadow what will become of the two lovers.
The point of view of Jane Eyre is told in the first person, past tense (for the most part) and this obviously means that Jane is looking back on her life and reflecting. I feel as though the only real reason she would do this is if her story ends up heading in a bad direction. Personally, I feel as though Jane may end up similar to Grace Poole, perhaps not crazy-- but one of Rochester's thrown away love affairs. Just speculating, but can't really be certain...
Another thing I noticed is that, does it not seem just so utterly convenient that all of a sudden Rochester finds out how Blanche really just wants his money? I think the whole marriage to Blanche was a setup of some sort to force Jane into confessing her love for Rochester... I mean we did mention in class that he seems to be pushing the whole "friend" thing with her, and marrying Blanche. I feel as though after the jealousy attempt didn't work, he just had to go the whole way and start pretneding to plan the marriage and lie to her about sending her to Ireland, to Bitternutt (lovely name isn't it?). I just feel as though I am growing increasingly skeptical about Mr Rochester.
=[ I'm scared for you, Jane Eyre.
I just wanted to comment on Marissa's comment about Jane's trust towards Mr. Rochester. I don' think it's only a matter of him playing these games with her, but rather revealing of Jane's own skeptic nature. In most of her childhood, she was tricked and deceived and that influenced a large part of Jane Eyre. Jane is used to trickery, she is used to being lied to; Jane is more used to cruelty than she is to kindness. It would make sense that she doubts Mr. Rochester's words not only because of his "games", but also because of who she is and what she is accustomed to.
I somewhat expected this story to pan out the way it did in these chapters. Just like what we said in the class discussion today, Rochester used Blanche as someone to make Jane jealous. Once Jane let her guard down and revealed her feelings for Mr. Rochester, they were able to become a couple.
I did not feel any suspicions towards Mr. Rochester until I read Danny's blog. Maybe Jane will end up becoming another mistake that he made and someone that he just "throws away". This is obviously something that we will not find the answer to until we get further into the novel.
I think that the weather could be something good. I mean i understand exactly what Danny is trying to say about Mr. Rochester having hidden skeltons in his closet however, the weather for Jane the cold is good. At the begining of the story Jane uses the cold weather is somewhat as a comfort road for her. Like she wants the cold to keep coming and coming. So i infered that now that she and Mr. Rochester are finally getting together and she's getting this fairy tale that she's never even dreamed about. I fully agree with Taylor when she talks about the weather not being surprising changing into this because it was something so significant in Jane's life. The weather is just another factor that enhances the proposle.
I would like to introduce that fact that for some reason I really belive that Jane is just Mr. Rochester's puppet. I feel that Mr. Rochester takes advantage of the fact that Jane is young and vulnerable. Like he gives her all these signals and gains her trust, and shows her he cares about her alot. He even admits to wanting to make her jealous. I feel as though Mr. Rochester likes to control Jane and he likes the power that he has over her. And the tree splitting is clearly a tell tale sign of trouble. I belive that it is a sign of Jane and Mr. Rochester's realtionship to go completely down hill, and that his proposal is going to be a complete and utter failure. I feel as though Mr. Rochester is going to brake her heart once he is done playing on her emotions.
I really found valleygirl 09's comment interesting, on how "Jane is just Mr. Rochester's puppet" I'm not so much sure I agree with the fact that she's a 'puppet' but it definitely has something to do with his control over her.
Might be just me, but I kinda don't want Rochester marrying her. First of all, he seems like a man of many many secrets, and what's the deal with the almost-burning down of his bedroom, and Mason being stabbed? AND Grace Poole? Second, marriage seems like the only thing that would tame Jane... (I don't want to use the word 'tame', but I can't find a better word.) Jane has so much fire, so much passion to her, and after marriage, what happens then? It feels as though marriage, especially to Rochester, is only going to tie her down. However, who knows, maybe he's not such a bad guy after all. We'll see.
Well fiddle sticks, rather than to talk about the foreshadowing weather Jane describes, I’d like to momentarily focus on Mr. Rochester. The reader isn’t given much to work with in regards with character. So far, what we know is that he’s a stern gentlemen with a troubled past. On account that this novel is told in the past tense, Jane hasn’t fully revealed Mr. Rochester. In spite of this mystery, as I read on, I appreciate Mr. Rochester’s character because he can’t be read easily. For example, Mr. Rochester disguised as a gypsy, tricking Jane, kissing Jane and proposing to her all of a sudden, he’s a quick. I’d also like to bring up, although there is a road of tumult ahead, social class and other events that may occur considered, in their union, they are now, “intellectual equals,” because they exhibit the same qualities of thought and enjoy that of one another. Anyway, although this great mystery surrounding Rochester is frustrating to even think about, none the less, it is an attractive quality that I feel attracts the reader to Rochester.
Aww! That's so romantic! Although he used Blanche to make Jane jealous. During the SRD today, we talked about Rochester throwing Blanche Janes face to get her jealous, I didn't think that it was true. I thought that at the wedding, Jane tells Rochester not to marry Blanche, if they were to have one. I shouldn't assume next time, but I'm such a sucker for these cute scenes, especially when she tells him that where he is, that is her home.
To Jessica's comment, its true that Rochester seems to have A LOT of secrets, but I think that he wants to change his life around with her in it.
To Victor, even though they are “intellectual equals”, I think that many people will disapprove of their marriage because they are of different classes. Rochester has sevants and help, whereas Jane is the help. I don't think the whole process will go according to plan. Maybe one of them might leave the other? What do you guys think?
Wow... that was a bit funny. Rochester seems to like to play a lot of mind games with Jane, but in the end it all seems to work out for her. Jane and Rochester getting married really isn't too shocking though, I admit I have been suspecting it for a couple of chapters now; it was the only logical thing to happen next. Rochester's character was too fully developed for Jane simply to move to another Governess job elsewhere after he marries Blanche.
Anyway, is it just me or did anyone else think that this is possibly the first time Jane feels a good sense of happiness? I would focus however on the effects Jane's marriage to Rochester will have on the delicate balance Jane tries to build up on the expectations society has of her as a women. Jane does not want to be held to the typical expectations of a woman throughout the novel and is thus labeled as a bit of a rebel for her time. However, her marriage to Rochester is one step closer to this expectation. As Jane is to marry, I wonder if she will keep any of her independence or whether she will simply become a rich man's wife? I think that this question is partially answered by the fact that, as Malissa pointed out, the novel is only two-thirds through and that the remaining third has to be filled with something.
Marissa and many others have brought up that they believe Jane's marriage will end in disaster (as possibly foreshadowed by the lighting strike on the chestnut tree) due to the outside world's view on the inter-class marriage the two have. I was wondering if the downfall to the marriage might not come from Jane or Rochester themselves? Jane's mindset is, whether she likes to believe it or not, a bit mainstream and for a while she did not think her feelings for Rochester appropriate. I don't know if there is anything to this theory, but it may be a possibility to keep in mind.
I can't lie, I was expecting this. I mean, ok, maybe not with the lightning and weather, but I had a feeling this was going to happen. Bronte described Rochester's actions in such a sneaky, or "dual purposed" that I could tell he was doing most of it to figure out what Jane was really like, eventually proposing to her.
I understand that everyone has already noticed and commented on the whole symbolism of the chestnut tree etc. In comparing Rochester's garden to the garden of Eden, this is the "tree from which you mustn't eat." Not only does the cracked tree symbolize the eventual separation of Jane and Rochester, but also the cause of it, lightning, which can easily be compared to passion. It really shows the destructive power of passion, something Jane has long been trying to properly control.
I agree with Katie. There is a lot of symbolism throughout chapter 23. One of the reoccurring symbols is the reference to a nightingale. As Mr. Rochester was explaining to Jane that he plans to send her to Ireland, he tells her to listen to a "nightingale singing in the wood" (271). I looked up the meaning of a nightingale and found it means yearning and pain; in Christianity it symbolizes the longing for heaven. In this part of the novel, the nightingale is a parallel to Jane's emotions. Jane truly loves Mr. Rochester, but holds back because she believed that he was going to marry Miss Ingram, just as she was "obliged to yield" (271). Then, the idea of being separated from Mr. Rochester caused her much pain, where she expresses "an impetuous wish that she had never been born or never came to Thornfield," (271). However, I think the nightingale also shows the creepier side of Mr. Rochester. He seems to find some kind of enjoyment out of causing Jane pain, just as he seems to relax to the nightingale's warble. Just as other people have said, this could foreshadow something horrible for Jane Eyre.
What! Surprised that something so grim as a split tree and creeping shadows on the night of Jane's engagement? Superstition! This is Jane and Grim, Stern-faced Mr. Rochester we're talking about, and nature's delighting according to Rochester's penchant for Gothic thrills.
Really, though, I think the worst of it was Ms. Fairfax gawking at them in amazement while she saw and heard Mr. Rochester and her kissing. She is termed simply "the widow" and she is "pale, grave, amazed" (275). There's something forbidding in bringing up the "widow." To me it's almost equivalent to "The Widow--Maker!" I'm personally more scared of her than the chestnut tree's timely death throes (reminds me of the Weeping Willow from Harry Potter, centuries later). All this time Mrs. Fairfax has been simply agreeable; smiling at Jane cordially, general being amiable, and at the same time keeping her agenda and her character very much to the side. But this pronounced gawking gets me: I think she shall take the side of society and disapprove of such shameful behavior!. (I can just imagine her with a pursed lip.)
Wow! Finally!
I seen this coming as well as all of you who read the book, however this not about our feelings on the book. On the other hand, is it?
What I want to open with this discussion is the language and imagery expressed in these last chapters. Such as, for all those who kept a sharp eye for religious/biblical allusions, they had a substantial amount to work with. One note follows Jane on her return to Thornfield, and she has the “vivid dream” of Ms. Ingram “closing the gates of Thornfield against her”(260) this picture follows the imagery of the fall from the Garden of Eden with the gates closing behind her. Next, the allusion to the story of the GoE goes to Page 270, wherein Mr. Rochester goes into his “queer feeling” when next to Jane, “it is as if I had a string somewhere under my left ribs tightly and inextricably knotted to a similar quarter of your little frame”(270). The reference placed as an extended metaphor to relay the message of how he sees a bond between him and Jane.
I've been thinking about Jane as an unreliable narrator and her descriptions of the events are biased such as the shriek heard at night. I found it a bit odd that Grace Poole seemed to be well mannered during day time and at night a supposedly a beast. Is she perhaps a scapegoat, since she also gets paid more than any other servant, plus it would be weird for Rochester to make Adele's mother a servant at his house - then again he did dress up like a gipsy for fun.
And the storm that occurs after the proposal and into the night. I feel like it can't symbolize washing away sins and starting anew. It seems to violent for that. Maybe it's foreshadowing something something new and unexpected is going to arise, like a plot twist or something of that nature.
I would like to touch on the symbols throughout chapter twenty three. First of all there is the "splendid midsummer day" and that the "skies so pure" set the mood to a positive future for our protagonist. Such as throughout the book whenever the weather is not cold and bitter, some good happening occurs. Furthermore, Jane is surrounded by an orchard that is "Eden-like" adding to moment of good weather, is the surrounding of vegetation representing life, and more to come. And Malisa and I seem to be thinking a lot lately... I looked up what a chestnut represents, "Justice, Honesty and Chastity". The tree is introduced early on in the chapter so for Jane justice and honesty was soon to come and it did as Jane confesses her love for Rochester and Rochester does so in return. Which to me represents the honesty and justic. I would agree with the falling to temptation, and to back that up the garden is described as "eden-like" alluding to perhaps the actions made by Eden. The nightingale also came up throughout hte chapter and looking that up I came up with "yearning and pain" which makes sense with the fact that Jane is yearning for a relationship with Rochester but is in pain to briefly believe that he is to marry Ingram. Also, it ties with the splitting of the chestnut tree, which represents their new found relationship... perhaps.
Mr. Rocehster is a real jerk.
This whole time he was toying with her emotions and abusing her thoughts. She would think of him day and night, and he would simply bring up Blanche just to make her jealous? If he truly cared about her, why would he cause her such anguish? This is an obvious sign that only peril and grief awaits Jane if she marries this man. Jane has always heade towards a path of freedom. Anywhere that she was limited or boundaries were set, she has managed to escape them. She has managed to set the boundaries for herself, ones that she wants. Marrying Rochester would be a prison to her, and this is also foretold by the lightning and the chestnut tree.
KeVien, I thought Mrs. Fairfax's reaction was peculiar too.
I think she highly disapproves for other reasons. Not only does she think it shameful and unprofessional, I think that she knows what Jane is in for. She has known Rochester much longer than Jane, and it is evident that Rochester has a terrible secret. By being so "amazed" and shocked, and also her behavior with Jane afterwards is a warning signal to Jane. I predict that Jane will escape this just as she has escaped her previous predicaments. I believe that Mrs. Fairfax cares about her, and she simply worries about her safety.
What I want to know is what will become of Adele?
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