The Hours Discussion
Here's the place to begin our discussion of The Hours. Please post three open ended questions you have about the novel. Then, read other people's questions and respond, in some detail and with thought, to one question from someone else. As always, direct references to the text are a plus!
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 10:33 AM
24 comments
24 Comments:
My three questions are...
1. Is Mrs. Brown suffering from a pre pregnancy depression or has she been depressed all her life?
2. Why is it that in "The Hours" Richard Dalloway commits suicide and in "Mrs. Dalloway" Septimus kills himself?
3. Does Richard Dalloway serve as Mrs. Dalloway's reflection like Septimus?
Hi Analu,
This response is to question number 2. In The Hours, Richard, isn't "Richard Dalloway." He is Richard Brown I believe, Laura Brown's son (Richie). When Clarissa welcomes Laura into her home, Laura Brown "[said] calmly, of her son, that he was a wonderful writer" (221). So the Richard that committed suicide was Laura Brown's son.
It's sometimes difficult trying to identify the parallels between the books. Clarissa is still Clarissa, Richard (from Mrs. Dalloway) seems to now be Sally. Elizabeth is Julia. Miss Kilman is Mary Krull. Bourton is Wellfleet. The Queen (or whoever it was in that car) is Meryl Streep. The difficult characters to figure out though, are Peter and Richard. I was talking to Dario about this the other day and we identified Septimus-like and Peter-like qualities in Richard Brown. Obviously, Richard Brown killed himself like Septimus did. But in The Hours, Richard had a fling with Clarissa at Wellfleet, like Peter, or perhaps even Sally. It's like in The Hours, Cunningham made Clarissa choose to live with Sally instead of Richard. This comlicates the plot even more, and like I mentioned, it became hard to identify a true parallel.
Now for my questions:
1. Why is EVERYONE in The Hours homosexual? (Excluding I think... the flower lady).
2. What's with Virginia kissing her sister while being married? No attatchment there?
3. Does Clarissa feel any regret for the past? (Staying with Sally and not going with Richard, the Sally of Mrs. Dalloway).
4. What do the "hours" mean to each character/ why was the book named The Hours?
haha thanks katie :-D
In response to Katie's question number four, i feel like "the hour" to each character is something that marks them in life. Like the hour the moments that each of them pass. In my group at school we did time and the time is something that really effects each and every character differently. "The Hours" this time is somewhat different then the time process for Mrs. Dalloway. The hour's the moments that happen the book "The hours" is significant because it's happening very rapidly I feel because their thoughts are forming quickly and things are happening one right after the other. I think the book was named the hours because it shows how each and every person is doing something at the same exact time and how the pace of things especially time for someone could be moving fast for one person and for another time could be so insufferable that it's going by way to slow.
In response to Katie’s question :Does Clarissa feel any regret for the past? (Staying with Sally and not going with Richard, the Sally of Mrs. Dalloway).
I believe that Clarissa does feel regret which is shown after Richard kills himself. She realizes, though a bit too late, that she was being selfish by trying to force Richard into a life which she thought was ideal instead of letting him be. Also Clarissa sometimes thinks about her love affair with Richard which also hints at regret.
My questions are:
1. I can anyone clarify what Virginia Woolf meant when she decided that Clarrisa would not kill herself but instead by the bed of grass where death is lain?
2. Are all of the women is "The Hours" a parallel of Clarissa Dalloway is some aspect or another?
3. What's up with that cake of Laura's?
To Katie's first question:
I think a majority of the characters are bisexual/homosexual to make the links easier but also to modernize the book, as I was talking to Kevin about this. I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that homosexuality wasn't quite popular or as widely accepted as it is now. Clarissa and Sally's relationship might not have seemed that way at the time, or maybe it was as far as it could go. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
My questions:
1. What is the purpose for Mrs. Brown being pregnant? At the end of the story the child dies in a car crash.
2. What is the connection between Laura Brown and Clarissa in terms of Mrs. Dalloway? Other than the fact that Laura's son, Richie grows up to be Clarissa's Richard?
3. What is Clarissa and Louis's relationship? I believed he was the parallel of Peter Walsh, but I don't think he loved Clarissa as Peter did. Then, again I suppose you don't have to feel the same way as the original character, but I digress.
Hey, everyone
My first question is what Cunningham means by constantly bringing up "life; London; this moment in June..." during Laura Brown's pieces. Laura repeats this line, though almost ironically..
My second question is about the repetition of failure. Virginia Woolf, as she steps into the river, wonders about Vanessa's art and her and her husband's printing press and wonders how "they have all failed" (5). Laura feels she fails at being the "paragon of domestic competence" (107). And lastly, Richard believes he has failed to create "something alive and shocking enough that it could stand beside a morning in somebody's life" (199). All of which were driven to suicide, or in Mrs. Brown's case, attempted suicide. My question is if Cunningham wanted to focus on failing, or the pressures and "hours" of failing.
My third question is if this whole "is it better to live or die, and which is more heroic/harder" conversation can still apply to the characters in The Hours, including Woolf herself.
To answer Katie's second question about Vanessa and Virginia kissing, I guess there's no point to it except to show how Virginia got her inspiration to have Clarissa (as in Mrs. Dalloway) kiss a girl. Having Clarissa kiss Sally Seton way before the 60s and, worse, in England, a time where I'm pretty sure everyone is still resolutely heterosexual adds to the secretive, meteoric thrill of Clarissa's most important kiss. It makes it more special, and, as Clarissa ages, more ideal so that this unattainable love becomes harder to reach and at the same time more alluring. Thus, it serves as a plot device that causes her to initiate her desires and venting that desire onto Peter, which causes her to question her marriage and the rest.
Back to the kiss, the kiss seems to be very much real. It is both with feeling and thrill, as Cunningham says that they kissed behind Nelly's back, who in this case it the big authoritative no-no to stuff like that. Then Virginia goes back and decides that Clarissa will kiss Sally Seton.
As for the reason why they kissed, it's not really clear why. Cunningham doesn't provide anything that would give us clues, so it seems that the focus should be on Clarissa's development as a character, and not on the relationship of Virginia and Vanessa.
ok my three questions are.
1. Does Virginia have an affair or something going on with her own sister Vanessa because i think a couple of times throughout the book they kiss on the lips?
2. Does Louis represent Peter or is supposed to to be similiar to him?
3. Ok so Im confused. Are Mary and Julia a couple or is Mary secretly in love with Julia and Julia is straight?
Paul’s Question: Are all of the women is "The Hours" a parallel of Clarissa Dalloway is some aspect or another?
I made the connection that Mrs. D from The Hours is similar to Clarissa because Mrs. D regrets the past (and what could have been with Richard) and like Mrs. Dalloway, goes back to the climax of her Life where as Kevin said, “choosing a road to take” and coming out with different results.
Mrs. Brown is similar to Clarissa in the sense that they both are meticulous individuals.
Cake scene:
“The cake is cute, Kitty tells her, the way a child’s painting might be cute….Laura is an artisan who has tried, and failed, publicly. She has produced something cute, when she had hoped (it’s embarrassing, but true) to produce something of beauty”(Cunningham 104).Laura feels like a failed artisan in her craft of making the perfect cake for her husband’s birthday. And like Clarissa, in Mrs. Dalloway, the birthday party is not just a party; it’s more.
I feel that Clarissa in Mrs. Dalloway isn’t like Virginia Woolf. But in one aspect, they are similar. Mrs. Woolf asks, “Why is dealing with servants so difficult. Her mother handled it beautifully. Why is it so difficult to be firm and kind; to command respect and love?”(Cunningham 87). Virginia and Clarissa are similar because they both have issues with their servants and there is lack of communication between both servant and master.
My Questions:
1. Cunningham establishes that The Hours is inspired by Mrs. Dalloway. But what exactly is The Hours? (Why is the book interrelated to Mrs. Dalloway but not similar to)?
2. In The Hours, why does Cunningham follow three (different) women in three (what seems like) unrelated eras of history?
3. Many of the characters in The Hours can be juxtaposed with those in Mrs. Dalloway, what is Cunningham's point in doing so? Yes, it’s for familiarity but what is the deeper meaning?
"Can anyone clarify what Virginia Woolf meant when she decided that Clarrisa would not kill herself but instead by the bed of grass where death is lain?"
Well, Paul my interpretation is this:
In Mrs. Dalloway, it seems that the one who is most affected by Septimus's death is definitely her. We hear all of her thoughts about it, and she practically envies it, possibly even glorifies it. In the Hours, this is the same for Clarissa Vaughn and Richard Brown since they were the closest after all those years. When Virginia Woolf witnessed the bed that the children made for the dead bird, it was identical to Clarissa thinking "death! in the middle of my party!" Virginia mentioned that she wanted to be that bird, she really wanted to lie on that flowery bed. Since Clarissa in "Mrs.Dalloway" didn't kill herself, she encountered death in this fashion by envying it, making it something desirable, pretty, even. Clarissa didn't kill herself, she was the "the bed of grass where death is lain."
My questions:
a.In what ways is Septimus similar to Clarissa?
b. What does London symbolize to Woolf in "The Hours" and why does she want to go back even though she always goes hysterical there?
c. What is significant about Laura Brown living through suicidal moments and her son committing it?
1) Was everyone else aware of the time difference between Mrs. Brown and Clarissa? If not, then do you think there was a purpose to not knowing, other than the added "shock value" at the end of the tale?
2) Was I the only one who thought that Mrs. Brown was at first, the parallel to Septimus? Since that isn't the case, did Mrs. Brown represent anyone from Mrs. Dalloway?
3) Do you think having nearly everyone in the story being sexually fluid (for lack of a better term) was the author's reflection of Mrs. Dalloway, or did it have a greater purpose?
2. In The Hours, why does Cunningham follow three (different) women in three (what seems like) unrelated eras of history?
In response to Victor's question, if you think about it, the three women aren't unrelated at all. Virginia Woolf wrote Mrs. Dalloway, which is the story that Laura Brown reads. While reading it, she connects to the story deeply in an attempt to deal with her inner struggles; ultimately, it’s through the book that Laura Brown ultimately decides to live her life. In turn, Mrs. Brown is the mother of Richard, who after living through his mother's struggles and later abandonment became the man he is today. By Mrs. Brown giving up on his family, he later in turn retaliates in a way by giving up on his life, and committing suicide. In turn, his suicide greatly affects ClarissaVaughan. The story itself is connected and shows how the past actions effected the future generation.
In addition, the three eras of history don’t seem to be that unrelated, if you examine it close enough. While yes, the three eras are different in what is socially acceptable and such, the three women living in those timelines adhered to certain, expected norms. In the end, all the timelines are nearly synonymous in that in all three timelines: they’re all attempting to take care of someone (Mrs. Brown her family, Clarissa with Richard, and Virginia Woolf with herself) all the while trying to carry out their normal routines. Not only that, but ultimately someone or something, in the case of Mrs. Brown, is killed.
Hi...
Responding to KeVien’s question…
“My third question is if this whole ‘is it better to live or die, and which is more heroic/harder’ conversation can still apply to the characters in The Hours, including Woolf herself.”
…I feel that this definitely can still apply to The Hours, but in a different way. To expand on, I am specifically speaking of Clarissa’s reaction in both books. As was discussed, in Mrs. Dalloway, Clarissa has this fascination with/admiration for Septimus’ death. In The Hours, Clarissa has this relationship connection with Richard, which is different from her connection to Septimus in Mrs. Dalloway.
On page 201 in The Hours, it states that Clarissa realizes that “it is simply the remains of a shattered beer bottle that had been lying on the concrete already, and not some consequence of Richard’s fall. She thinks she must pick him up immediately, to get him off the glass.” What I find interesting is how Clarissa questions the bottle as being the victim of Richard’s actions, instead of the bottle causing Richard’s death, when she says "consequence of Richard's fall". After I had that idea, I felt that the following sentence pretty much supported it, in that Clarissa wants to take Richard off of the glass…she seems to be reacting more to the glass being shattered than to Richard being dead.
Another interesting part of her reaction, is that although “[s]he knows even before she descends these last stairs that he is dead,” she still “fears waking him” (201). This could explain a possible feeling of denial…or something of that sort. As the moment continues on, it is written that “[s]he feels (and is astonished at herself) slightly embarrassed by what has happened. She wonders why she doesn’t weep” (202). She then goes on to imagine what she would love to tell him… “how she herself, Clarissa, loved him,” how “[s]he would ask his forgiveness for shying away,” and how she desired “a relatively ordinary life” (203). This could explain how she is not really suffering because of his death, but would rather want to get a few of her feelings across to him …she also mentions her party. After Richard’s death, Clarissa is the same person as she was before, she only feels this sense of regret for not being able to express her emotions.
As for Virginia Woolf, I feel that Clarissa’s ending in the book represents how Woolf herself feels. At the end of Mrs. Woolf on page 211, Wolf says “Yes, someone like that. Clarissa, sane Clarissa—exultant, ordinary Clarissa—will go on, loving London, loving her life of ordinary pleasures, and someone else, a deranged poet, a visionary will be the one to die.” Woolf at the end of the book is alive, through any thoughts of depression that have arisen, and Clarissa will not die, just as she herself will not. Woolf too will go on to live a "normal" life.
…hope that helps.
Okay, now for my questions…
1. Is Richard in The Hours suppose to symbolize Richard in Mrs. Dalloway in a way, given that they were both named “Richard”?—there must be some sort of similarity that is trying to be pulled on.
2. Why is it that someone who Clarissa does not pursue for a relationship, even though she liked him, in Mrs. Dalloway, is Peter, a man who does not die…,but in The Hours, the man that she did not pursue, whom she again loved, was Richard, a man who does die?
3. What is with these “not taking chances” (in the relationship with Peter or Richard) in both books? Is this supposed to tell the reader something about Woolf’s personal life?
...thanks
to answer part c of gysploo I think the point of Laura Brown living through all these sucidial moments is ironic because throughout the book she talks about death and she thinks about death. also at one point she even thinks about killing herself when she's pregnant. she realizes that death can happen at any point even when we don't expect it, but also when we want to commit it. I hope that answer your question in someway.
Hey Everybody,
ok my questions:
1. Why does Virginia Woolf decide to have "someone smart" enough kill themselves. What does that mean ?
2. Does Sally parallel Richard Dalloway? And were they both the "safe" choice.
3. Why does Laura Borwn actually outlive the rest of the family she wanted to take her self away from?
Karma ? or something else..
I would like to respond to Paul's question about why would Clarissa be the nest of death.
Clarissa Dalloway from Mrs. Dalloway is one who lives life everyday and loves it. Although Virgina herself is suicidal I believe that she envies Clarissa. She serves somewhat of a complete opposite character. Some one the Woolf wanted to be and feel like. By having Clariss be the "nest" in which lay in she wanted her to represent the kind of person that takes life as it comes. Had she been suicidal like Woolf herself she would not have held parties, or had the thoughts shes did. By having her accept death she could show that living wasn's something that she was afraid of. She freely accpeted death and didnt want it any more prematurely than it had to be, but also would be content with herself, had it come early. Woolf was unhappy with her life and living and making choices scared her. Mrs. Dalloway puts her at peace by showing her that death is completely alright and accepteable if you can accept and feel content with yourself.
Okay, so questions...
1. It had felt throughout 'Mrs. Dalloway' that Septimus was a part of Virginia Woolf and now in 'The Hours' Richard seems to be a part of her as well. Richard mirrors Septimus and Septimus mirrors Virginia Woolf. Why is that?
2. Richard tells Clarissa that he has failed shortly before killing himself. Did he merely fail at writing, "something alive and shocking enough that it could stand beside a morning in somebody's life"(199)? or did he fail at something of greater importance?
3. How/why is it that Mrs. Brown who, "tried to die and failed at it", is alive while her family has died? Why does she get to live?
In response to Paul's question, "What's up with that cake of Laura's?", I think that the cake represents her efforts to be a good wife and mother. She attempts to be the perfect wife to Dan and mother to Richie but she can't seem to this, becoming unhappy with her life at times. She attempts to make this cake, to make it beautiful instead it comes out "cute" with little imperfections like "crumbs in the frosting" and the "n" in dan squished next to an icing flower. Her attempts are wholehearted but she just can't achieve perfection. Just like the gifts she gives to Dan that, "will be appreciated: because they've been given with good intentions, because they exist, because they are part of a world in which one wants what one gets" (101).
I would like to respond to Angela's question: What is the purpose for Mrs. Brown being pregnant? At the end of the story the child dies in a car crash.
I think that the purpose of Mrs. Brown being pregnant is to reemphasize Mrs. Brown's choice of choosing to live rather than kill herself. By being pregnant, I think Cunningham stresses the fact that life is more important than death to Mrs. Brown, as she chooses life over death for her child as well as herself. I feel like this connects with the theme of Mrs. Dalloway because Mrs. Dalloway and Septimus enjoy life, even though they both feel as though death is the ultimate form of release.
My three questions are:
What is a kiss meant to signify in the book? I understand all of the characters are homosexual, but I feel as though the kiss amoung Woolf and her sister/ Mrs. Brown and her friend represents something more symbolic.
Why does Cunningham make it so that Richard is the one killing himself in this book? What is he trying to say about the Richard of Mrs. Dalloway?
What is the purpose of setting the Mrs. Dalloway in the 21st century? I understand it gives us a new perspective on the story, but the use of homosexuality, HIV, and all the more contemperary ideas seem to have a larger significance.
Hey all, first my questions:
1. It seems like flowers are a large part throughout Mrs. Dalloway and The Hours. Why is this? What (if anything) are the flowers a symbol of?
2. Does The Hours (along with Mrs. Dalloway) suggest that regret is a natural feeling that comes as people grow older? It seems like in both books the characters regret some decisions about life, but is this feeling inevitable.
3. Lastly, when thinking about both Mrs. Dalloway and The Hours, what does it mean that in Mrs. Dalloway, Woolf writes about the choice between life and death and that Virginia Woolf (along with Septemus and Richard) chose death?
Danny asked: "What is the purpose of setting the Mrs. Dalloway in the 21st century? I understand it gives us a new perspective on the story, but the use of homosexuality, HIV, and all the more contemperary ideas seem to have a larger significance."
A lot of people have questioned why Clarissa in The Hours is set in the 21st century, and I'd like to address that question.
In a nutshell, I think the answer would be to have the reader relate to the feelings of alienation, regret and being disenchanted that Clarissa has. Like you said, the contemporary writing with the contemporary details gives us a different perspective than Mrs. Dalloway (the book) gave us of this topic.
The reader can certainly connect more easily to The Hours' Clarissa than Mrs. Clarissa Dalloway as we are not slammed in the face with the formalities and ideology of early 20th century England.
Clarissa is more relate-able since she is more like in her society and her thinking. Being more easily relate-able and modern shows the reader that yes that people still feel this way in today's society, not just back in the post WWII days.
Also, there is the whole organizational factor in the novel that is affected by havign Clarrissa in the present. The three protagonists in the novel (Mrs. Woolf, Mrs. Brown and Ms. Vaughan) are each from a different time period. Virginia is in the early 20th century, Laura in the mid 20th, and Clarissa in the late 20th/early 21st. This gives us the three perspectives that The Hours is given from and makes the book quite interesting.
I hope that helped!
1. Excluding the prologue, both books, The Hours and Mrs. Dalloway, the story begins with Clarissa buying flowers. What is the significance of this scene?
2. On pg. 33, when Leonard notices how old she's gotten, just like in Mrs. Dalloway. Theres always this repetition of noting how old characters have gotten, what do you think the purpose of this is?
3. Woolf decides to put traits of herself that she wishes she has in Clarissa's character, what is the significance in this?
3. What is with these “not taking chances” (in the relationship with Peter or Richard) in both books? Is this supposed to tell the reader something about Woolf’s personal life?
In response to Marissa's question, characters in both books often reflect upon their past choices and how the outcome hasn't exactly been what they had expected. Perhaps this tells us some things about Woolf's personal life, that maybe she, just like the characters in her book, had time to reflect on her decisions, her regrets, and what she probably would have wanted to do differently.
I feel that Cunningham's repetition of this idea of 'not taking chances' is to imply that as we get older, we have more time to reflect on our pasts, and we will no doubt find ourselves regretting those lost chances that we let go.
In response to Jessica's question, I think the character's "not taking chances" could perhaps reflect Woolf feeling some serious doubts in her own life, of opportunities in her past she didn't take advantage of, regrets, etc. Perhaps one of the reasons she committed suicide is because she couldn't live with questioning what would have happened if she did something in her life differently, or didn't take certain courses of action at all.
How are you guys doing?
My first response is how the whole whole plot plays as a nonlinear narrative. Each character has a unique effect for each of the women in the story. Through this, the response for the question of what the "hours" mean is that measure of life that the three women. It is to create that element of not only urgency but as a reminder to the "hours" they have left in the lives they have chosen. Through out the novel it is apparent that each are pensive about every choice that they have done. More on this Later.
Ok, well hello guys. I just have a few questions to ask.
1.) This kept bothering me throughout the novel and I was just wondering why Laura Brown does not feel comfortable alone with her son? "Here then, is the daily transition. With her husband present, she is more nervous but less afraid. She knows how to act. Alone with Richie, she sometimes feels unmoored--he is so entirely, persuasively himself".(47)
2. I also wanted to know why Richard was allowed to leave the hospital? Isn't he sick, from AIDs? I mean, is it because he was getting an award that day or could he just leave and come back when he wants? This confused me too.
3. Why is that these characters are prone to fits of depression and its so nonchalant? Is it normal in high class groups or something of the like? It seems as if everyone is suffering in some way and eveyrone is accustomed to it. Both in Mrs. Dalloway and the Hours, no one really cares, they act like it's common.
To answer JMama's second question on age, I think it's so they can reflect. They are all older characters and in your "old" age, a person does not have much to do but reflect upon their life. Reflect upon the choices they've made and the life they're living, the life they could have been living and any regrets. A person who is young for instance 20 will not have the same reflections or hopefully as many regrets as a person who is 50.
I think the age serves as a reminder of the choices taken in life and the time still left. At an older age, there is not much room for change, which I think is why the comment of getting older is always around. Every day you get older is a day of missed opportunity or a day of potential regret in the future. I've always thought as younger people more action-oriented and the older as more thought-driven because they've lived through things that gives them the experience to think and reflect first. the book "The Hours" also wanted to follow a bit in the style of "Mrs. Dalloway" and a majority of the book is reflection; so I think "The Hours" wanted to follow in that example. The age and getting older is perfect for reflection.
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