Literature of Psychology Group
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posted by Ms. Clapp @ 12:13 PM
13 comments
13 Comments:
In the beginning of the the 3rd part of the novel, a lot of Chief Bromden's past is revealed. He gives an anecdote of when he encountered three white people who completely ignored him and degraded his race, instigating his tendency to pretend to be deaf. Kesey uses imagery of the sun and "brightness" to describe how Bromden felt when this incident occured, when he was still only a child. Kesey writes, "I get the funniest feeling that the sun is turned up brighter than before on the three of them. Everything else looks like it usually does...the machinery disposes of the words like they weren't even spoken." (181) Once again, the Chief brings up "machinery". Just as the nurse controls the hospital with machinery, the three white strangers that trespass on his home work by machinery that doesn't include him. This incident is the root cause of Bromden's behavior of acting deaf. The exclusion and discrimination of the white adults made him feel so inferior, and this inferiority carried into his adulthood and life in the hospital. Does this reasoning behind his actions make Bromden a more reliable narrator? Or since he is now speaking to McMurphy, can he not be trusted as much, since he is no longer a "fly on the wall"?
I agree and disagree with taylor because even though the discrimination towards him his whole life has messed up, i feel like he uses it as an excuse over all. I dont think that Bromden is a reliable charcter from what i have read thus far because he makes himself so interior to the rest of the characters in the novel. By pretending that he is deaf and dumb and tricking everybody i feel his character's flaws ooze out. The discrimination problem however, i also feel like is the root of all the problems because instead of being treated like everyone else he is constently being judged. Though in the asylum itself he gives way for the people to make these assumptions of him, therefore he plays a crazy person pretty well. What my group has told me is that everyone in the asylum is there by choice however, in a way i fee like Bromden is also in there by choice because he can better himself in a way but she chooses not to be. Is it because of all this discrimination that he chooses to lock himself up?
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I disagree with both of you guys actually, in terms of the event where Bromden is ignored by the three suits. Personally, I saw the “brightness” as a turning point, but not essentially a good one. I saw Kesey using the event in which Bromden’s paranoia became evident, rather than the event that triggered Bromden’s pseudo-deaf/muteness. While I agree with what Taylor said about how he carried the feeling of inferiority once the white suits ignored him, all the while I think it was Bromden’s actual paranoia that carried him to the hospital; the same paranoia which he saw from his father after he started to fear everything, and Bromden soon followed suit.
And while I agree with the fact that Bromden is an unreliable narrator, I don’t believe it’s in the sense that he himself is twisting the events because he makes himself inferior to the others; more likely, he’s an unreliable narrator because of his mental state. After all, Bromden is one of the few characters who is actually committed to the psych ward, rather than voluntary. While I think the pretend deaf/mute-ness is partially because he feels as if nobody will listen to him, at the same time I think it’s more due to the fact that he realizes that if he stays quiet, and generally does what he’s told, he’ll be ignored. And I think that in this case, you want to be ignored, because while you’re ignored at the asylum, you’re safe in the sense that they won’t harm you. That’s just my thought on it though, do you think in the case of being at the mental hospital, that it’s safer to be ignored?
In reply to your question, Malisa, I do believe the patients are safer from the wrath of Nurse Ratched and the other figures of authority in the hospital if they act as to be ignored. Just look at how Bromden is treated versus how McMurphy is treated. Bromden observes more than McMurphy can, while McMurphy reacts more than Bromden does. The reactions cause the conflict that McMurphy always seems to run into, while Bromden stays as a simple fly on the wall. While this is the safer route, I don't believe it is the right one. It is this safe way that all the other men in the hospital have tried to follow, but they don't do so as well as Bromden. It is also for this reason that all of the men have lost their masculinity, as McMurphy and Harding discussed previously in the novel.
I would actually have to disagree with you Taylor. The fly on the wall is probably the best approach for the patients. As many of the patients began following McMurphy, defying the laws of the hospital and the Big Nurse, they end up killing themselves. Cheswick who was McMurphy's early follower, is an example. When he was causing a ruckus about the cigarette ration, and looked for McMurphy for support. Instead, McMurphy kept quiet, after learning he was committed to the hospital. Afterwards, Cheswick committed suicide due to McMurphy's lack of support. Also, in this section Billy commits suicide because the Big Nurse threatened to tell his mother about Candy, whom McMurphy introduced him to. In the end the only one who manages to get out of the hospital is Bromden, which I credit to his fly-on-the-wall approach. I feel had he acted up any earlier, he would not have been able to escape, and might have faced the same ending as Cheswick and Billy.
There are many tidbits that connect McMurphy to Jesus. There's the idea of self-sacrifice with McMurphy, as he stands up for the other patients, such as George against the aides, resulting in the electroshock therapies and eventually his lobotomy. Also, the cross-shaped table would allude to a crucifix, and his request for a crown of thorns relates to Jesus Christ. Many have died because of McMurphy, such as Cheswick and Billy, therefore do you think McMurphy can be considered a martyr? Or do you think perhaps the patients would have been better off without McMurphy?
I found what Angela commented about those who followed McMurphy really interesting; I hadn’t noticed the tendency of those that looked up to or were close to McMurphy dying. The only thing I would argue about that though is that I was under the imporession that Cheswick’s death wasn’t suicide; he dived into the pool, and got his fingers wedged into the drain. I saw it more as a freak accident over anything else, an accident which initially helped spur McMurphy to stay quiet even more. And I definitely agree on the point that I believe that in this case, the best approach would be to stay quiet; granted, your ego and dignity will probably be wounded in the process, but if it gives you an opportunity to escape earlier, then it gives you more time to make up for your lost dignity afterwards.
I do agree with Angela when she says that McMurphy has a Jesus symbolism towards him. The fact that he is so trusting to others and acts as if he is the main leaders to the other patients give him that characteristic. Also I believe that he was important to be in the ward with the patients because in a way he brought courage towards the patients and gave them a hope to look forward into what they were doing. However, McMurphy playing this leader role caused lots of problems such as the deaths of Cheswick, but i believe that in the end they would have ended up dying because of their own weaknesses. I do believe that he could be considered a martyr because he was there influencing them into doing things that sometimes they didnt want to do. Plus his attitude was very persuasive.
When Taylor talked about how if you act as a fly on the wall like Bromden and not like McMurphy who is constently defying the Nurses attitudes and questions that will get you into less trouble is false. I feel that way because the nurses wrath is always there for example even when she asks a simple question that had no siginifance to it but a question about a tissue even if they patient had not fought back they still would have gotten an attitude or some sort of hateful look. I feel that just by acting like that everything was okay was not helping anything, however doing something like McMurphy did only really caused trouble. They lose in both ways. I feel that the story really leads into a conflict because if they fought nothing changed but brought the death of two.
I too agree with the Jesus symbolism, although I didn’t see it at first. Looking back I’m not sure how I missed it, but the allusions to the cross shape he took when he was being “treated” with electroshock therapy, the fact that he was sociable and liked by everyone, and obviously, the crown of thorns he asked for during his therapy sessions. While I admit, his being there may have lead to Billy’s death, in the end McMurphy could definitely be classified as a martyr. After all, he sacrifices his freedom, his mind, and then ultimately his life, in order to bring hope to those in the hospital. He instilled enough hope to all of them for hopefully years to come, and in the end also gave Bromden his strength back to escape.
I found Bromden's transition in character very interesting. I remember at the beginning of our book club discussions, we questioned why Bromden was the narrator, rather than the main character, McMurphy. Although McMurphy has proven to be a significant character in the novel, Bromden's presence was more important. His character is pretty ironic to me. His fly-on-the-wall attitude gave the impression that he was dumb in the physical and mental sense. However, I consider him the wisest character among them all. Bromden is the only patient that used McMurphy's advice to make a better life for himself by escaping the hospital, rather than being silly and causing a ruckus like Billy and Cheswick.
all in all have a good life Bromden where ever life may led you.
I totally see the Jesus symbolism now. Being more specific to what Malisa said about giving Bromden the strength to escape, he died so Bromden could be free. Jesus died so his followers could be free. But my question now is, if McMurphy is a symbol of Jesus, does Nurse Ratched represent the devil? I'm not too sure about that one. Billy's death came as a shock to me, for Kesey had developed him to be a sympathetic character, with his stutter, child-like characteristics, and the feeling of a need to please his mother. Billy's death makes McMurphy seem like a villain momentarily, just as Jesus was denied by his followers right before his death.
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