Q & A for 2.2 and 3.1
Here, finally, is the space. Blog away!
JC
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 11:35 AM
33 comments
Friday, November 03, 2006
JC
JC
Here, finally, is the space. Blog away!
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 11:35 AM
33 comments
33 Comments:
Here is my question for 2.2:
What is the purpose of the scene that the actors put on at Hamlet's request? Is there some sort of deeper meaning to it that symbolically relates to what is actually going on in the play? I just didn't understand why Shakespeare would include this scene about Priam and Pyrrhus unless there was more significance to it.
Question for 3.1: Why does Hamlet behave so cruelly to Ophelia? Is it true that, as Hamlet says, "[he] loved [Ophelia] not?" (83). Does he actually have such cold feelings toward Ophelia, or is this merely part of some sort of plot of his? And is it possible that Hamlet knows that the king, queen, and Polonius were hiding behind the curtain and thus was putting on some kind of show for them?
I know that's not really two questions, but... just think of it as 2 multi-layered questions.
Here are two more questions:
In 2.2 (p. 71-72), I couldn’t quite understand what Rosencrantz, Guildenstern, and Hamlet were discussing about the players or actors that were coming. What is the controversy they are referring to? And if the actors are indeed involved in some controversial matters, why would they be allowed to act in front of the King of Denmark and his family?
And my next question isn’t quite deep, but is there a specific reason why Claudius ordered Gertrude to leave when they started spying on Ophelia and Hamlet? Is there like some sexism involved? Or perhaps women weren’t supposed to be a part of the sneaky things?
Thanks to whoever can help me with these questions!
Answer to Nina's question:
Well I looked up the story of Priam and Pyrrhus and it is suppose to be a Trojan story of revenge. Pyrrhus tries to kill the King Priam but right when he tries to his sword "seem'd i' th' air to stick" and it shows his hesitation when trying to kill the king. It also says that "Pyrrhus stood and, like a neutral to his will and matter, did nothing." I think Shakespeare included this play as a sort of foreshadowing to how Hamlet is going to act in the event of killing his uncle Cladius. This also connects and supports the play that we saw on the field trip where Hamlet was standing above Claudius and couldn't kill him because he was praying.
answer to Cora's question:
Well at first Hamlet asks who the troupes are and then Rosencratz says that the troupes are from the city and supposedly Hamlet used to enjoy watching their plays. The controversy of the players is that they have to compete with the children who yell out their lines in the middle of their play. The group of children then take over the public theatres and this is why the troupes have to travel on the road away from the city because they aren't as popular as before. In lines 343-346 they talk about how the chlidren actors and the adult actors fight between roles of the play. And I think the controversy of this situation is trying to figure out who is the better actor or who society likes better, the children or the adults. This is not to say that the adult actors are not good actors and shouldn't play in front of the king, it just means that society has changed their view point on what they find entertaining and amusing.
Question numero uno: In line 391, who is Jephthah, judge of Israel? What is his story? Why does Hamlet quote lines from him? What is it's importance?
Question numero dos: I don't really get why Hamlet repeatedly says "get thee to a nunnery." (120, Act 3 Scene 1) I hope someone can explain that to me!
To answer Tania's first question, Polonius, first of all, doesn't believe that Hamlet truly loves Ophelia, claiming that "these blazes, daughter, giving more light that heat...you must not take for fire" (46). In other words, Hamlet's vows of love have no real substance in them. Polonius goes on to say that these vows "[breathe] like sanctified and pious bonds, the better to [beguile]" (46). This quotation reinforces that although these vows may seem real and true to the Ophelia, they are actually full of deceit and are manipulating her trust. In addition, based on the reading thus far, it is never actually "obvious" that Hamlet loves Ophelia; the only proof of their loving relationship is from what Ophelia discusses with Polonius and Laertes. On the other hand, the actual interactions between the two do not reveal a relationship based on love: their only interactions thus far are when Hamlet approaches her during his bout of madness (2.1) and when he acts so cruelly toward her, telling her that he never loved her (3.1), neither portraying any sense of love that Hamlet may feel for Ophelia. Furthermore, just as Tania mentioned, Polonius believes that even if the relationship itself were based on true love and Hamlet wanted to pursue it further, they would not be able to, because as a prince, Hamlet is not allowed to make decisions based on personal desire but rather for the good of the country (which relates to Hamlet being "a prince out of [Ophelia's] star" (65)). Thus, whether or not Hamlet actually loved Ophelia, the relationship could go nowhere; in fact, because there was no possibility of its advancement,it could only lead to trouble. On this note, Polonius comments that if the relationship did proceed, Ophelia would only "tender [Polonius] a fool" (46). Hence, not only would Ophelia ruin her reputation and her honor by entering into a too-serious pre-marital relationship, but she would also destroy that of Polonius and make them societal outcasts.
Here's one of my questions.
Question for 3.1:In lines 103-119 Hamlet randomly throws a few questions to Ophelia asking is she is honest and is she is fair. Then he goes on to say to her "That if you be honest and fair, [your honesty] should admit no discourse to your beauty." (Line 106). He talks about how "honesty can translate beauty inot his likeness... This was sometimes a paradox." (line 111)What does he mean by this, and what is the paradox?
To answer Huy's question:1)What’s the purpose of the “players”?
I think the purpose of the players is an inspiration for Hamlet to think of his plan to "catch the conscience of the King"(Line 585).By watching the players put on the play Hamlet gets his idea to put on his own play that will reenact the death of Hamlet senior. By doing to Hamlet can determine whether Claudius killed the king or not by his reaction to the play.
To answer Grace's question:Is Hamlet ‘crazy in love’ with Ophelia? Is he actually mad, and is this what has made him mad, at least in part?
I think Hamlet is truly in love with Ophelia, but not "crazy in love" He is putting on his act of being mad and playing it off as if he was insanely in love with her. But by saying he loved her then flip flopping and saying he didn't love her is his way to trying to convince her of his madness.Mad people tend to be indecisive and acting like he isn't sure about anything makes his plan all the more convincing. However, I think Hamlet is playing the mad card so well that in a way he might be convincing himself that he is indeed mad. He might be unstable because he is after all seeing the ghost of his dead father and on the brink of insanity, but not from being in love with Ophelia.
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Second question for 2.2:
In the play "The Murther of Gonzago" does the king get murdered exactly the way Hamlet senior got murdered? I'm a bit confused because in the play we saw it seemed as if Hamlet directed the entire play himself and put it together. So is it a real play or one Hamlet made up? Or did he just tweek the play of "The Murther of Gonzago" so it mirrored the way Claudius murdered the king?
I hope you guys understood what i just asked...
To answer Derrick's second question about the line between faking insanity and being insane:
Personally, I think there is no way you can tell when a person truly becomes insane. If you continuously lie, pretending to be something you're not, eventually you are going to become that person. There is no way of avoiding it. You won't know when it happens because, heck, you're doing it every minute! This relates to this one poem that I was going to do for my Poem-of-the-Day. It's called Our Other Sister and it's about an older brother creating this fascinting story about an older sister that left the family. He became so detailed with the lie, that in the end, he came to believe that there was another sister out there, whom he longed to see again. This can apply to Hamlet's situation because what he is basically doing is living a lie until it will eventually become but a truth. He may think that he's pretending to be mad but eventually that will be the only thing that he knows how to be.
To answer Sandra's second question:
Hamlet(Hami) found out from his father just how Claudius had poisoned dear old dad. He used this information to add in that scene in the Murther of Gonzago. If you refer to pg 77 at lines 521-523, Hamlet asks the player king to memorize a small speech that he himself will write. The scene that Hamlet has just added is presumably a recreation of the way that the former king Hamlet had died. He is doing this because in lines 574-578, he wants to see if Claudius will react in any way to the scene. If the recreated scene has any effect on Claudius, Hamlet will know that what the ghost was saying was true and he has to exact revenge. In short, he just added a scene into the Murther of Gonzago; the field-trip play was having Hamlet direct that scene because he's the one who wrote it - he's the one who has the vision for it. I hope that helped. I know that I ranted a bit. Sorry!
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My first question is somewhat related to Grace's question. I understand the second part of Hamlet's soliliquy at the end of Act 2, scene 2. What I don't quite understand is the first part, specifically pg. 78. I hope someone can help.
My second question is from Act 3 Scene 1.
In the final lines of the scene, Polonius tells Claudius to give Gertrude a chance to find out what is behind Hamlet's behavior. If she can't, "To England send him" (line 184). Why would Polonius suggest England of all places? This is kind of a weird and random question.
In response to Bonita's first question, about the first part of Hamlet's soliloquy in 2.2, Hamlet claims that it is "monstrous that this player here, but in a fiction...could force his soul so to his own conceit" (78); i.e. Hamlet is again expressing his scorn for "seeming" to be something instead of actually being something. The actor, molding his emotions and his actions at his own will, is seeming to be something that he is not, causing himself to have "tears in his eyes, distraction in his aspect..." (78) without really feeling this way. Hamlet then discusses that if the actor truly felt the emotion that he is expressing-- the same "cue for passion" that Hamlet himself has-- he would "drown the stage with tears" (78) due to the magnitude of unrestrained, real sentiment that he would be portraying. At the same time, Hamlet is also conveying the contempt he feels for himself, for even an actor who does not really feel these things acts more on his supposed emotions than Hamlet acts on his true feelings. In other words, although Hamlet has this passion and these emotions relating to his father's death and Claudius's supposed role in it, he does not act upon them and thus questions whether or not he is a coward for doing nothing.
To answer Jill's second question, I think the reason why Hamlet does not commit suicide relates more to his cowardice than a genuine desire to avenge his father's murder. After the ghost of Hamlet's father reveals to him that foul play was involved in his death and that Hamlet must avenge the murder, Hamlet bemoans, "O cursed spite, that ever I was born to set it right!" (56). He does not want to have to shoulder the responsibility of revenge. This idea is also somewhat related to why Hamlet does not act on this notion of revenge for so long: he does not want to complete this obligation, and thus berates himself for being so cowardly even though he, "the son of a dear [father] murthered, prompted to my revenge by heaven and hell," (79), is just sitting around discussing the event rather than acting. Thus, Hamlet has no desire to avenge his father's death (for otherwise, he would have acted on this desire much sooner) and hence this would not have been a factor in why he does not commit suicide. In addition, in examining Hamlet's "To be or not to be" soliloquy, Hamlet declares that no one "would bear the whips and scorns of time," (82), if it were not for the fear of the unknown following death. The more one contemplates suicide, in fact, the more "conscience does make cowards [of us all]" (82), for in contemplation one's fears of death's mysteries proliferate. This fear has caused him to lose his resolution to commit suicide.
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Drew's question: 1. When Hamlet is talking to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern and how he has dreams and that's why he's crazy...Why did Hamlet say this? I know that he is trying to feign being crazy, but dreams are something normal people do, and not something that people relate to crazy? Someone please clarify!
Okay I hope this helps. On page 68 Hamlet says, "O God, I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space--were it not that I have bad dreams." (249-251) His preceding line is "Why then 'tis none to you (Rosencrantz); for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." (245-246) I think he is basically saying that nothing really is a certain way, it's simply the way our minds choose to interpret or construct a situation. So when he says that he "could be bounded in a nutshell" and still count himself a king of infinite space, he's basically saying that he could lead himself to believe anything if it weren't for the bad dreams that haunt him. So I think when he mentions the "bad dreams" he is saying that they are acting as some sort of an impediment to the will of his mind.
Tania's question: In lines (42-53), Scene 3.1, I wasn't sure what Polonius and the King were talking about. Polonius mentions something about "pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself" but does this mean that people pretend to act good at times to avoid trouble? If so, how does this relate to the situation with Hamlet and Ophelia. In the king's response, what does "harlot's cheek" refer to?
I believe that a harlot is similar in meaning to the word "strumpet" which is basically a whore or a very loose woman. He is basically saying that the makeup that a harlot uses to disguise the ugliness/plainness of her cheek is uglier than the cheek itself, even though it makes it appear more beautiful. Claudius makes an analogy between this and his "most painted word" which lies about his "deed" (killing his own brother).I really liked those lines.
Tania's question: In lines (42-53), Scene 3.1, I wasn't sure what Polonius and the King were talking about. Polonius mentions something about "pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself" but does this mean that people pretend to act good at times to avoid trouble? If so, how does this relate to the situation with Hamlet and Ophelia. In the king's response, what does "harlot's cheek" refer to?
The whole "pious action" line refers to Ophelia pretending to be alone and reading the religious exercise book so that Hamlet won't be suspicious of why she is alone. By sitting there "with devotion's visage and pious action" Ophelia will be able to fool Hamlet of the real intention for why she is there alone, to allow her father and Claudius to spy on him.
Alright here's my first question. On page 77 Hamlet is talking to Polonius about the actors and he says, "Do you hear, let them be well us'd, for they are the abstract and brief chronicles of the time." By this is he sort of making an allusion to the play "The Murther of Gonzago" and how their performance is a brief chronicle of Claudius' murther of his father? Sorry, I just had to use murther. Murther!
On page 83 Hamlet is talking to Ophelia and he asks her, "What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven?" (126-127) Could someone please please elaborate on the meaning behind this?
P.S. "...I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in." Awesome lines.
Maggie's question numero uno:
Jephthah was a judge of Israel, who was called to lead the Israelites against Ammon. BUT before he left for war, he made a vow to God that if he were victorious, the first living thing to walk through his door would be sacrificed to God. Unfortunately, when Jephthah came home, his only daughter walked into his door. So then, she took two months to "bewail her virginity upon the mountains," and when she returned, she was a human sacrifice.
Jephthah and his Daughter
So maybe Hamlet is referencing Polonius' disregard for his daughter's feelings. Instead of sympathizing with Ophelia, he reminds her of how she is far below his social standing, stupid for believing Hamlet loved her, etc. Polonius does not interpret it this way, however. He rephrases the ballad, to which Hamlet responds "Nay, that follows not," playing with the meaning. Although the lines are in order, it does not follow that Polonius loves Ophelia, according to Hamlet.
Question for 2.2
At the end of Hamlet's soliloquy (lines 578 - 583), is he questioning the ghost? Is he questioning his own sanity? "Perhaps," he says, "out of my weakness and my melancholy...[the devil] abuses me to damn me." Although it seems that Hamlet dismisses the idea pretty quickly, what is the significance of him touching upon this subject?
Question for 3.1
This relates to Cora's question because I thought I had an answer, but when I reread, I relized I did not. Why would Polonius and Claudius have Gertrude leave if they were intended for her to pump Hamlet for the source of his madness later? Wouldn't having her there help her get more information out of her son by giving her a greater understanding of his feelings for Ophelia?
My first question is only meant to spark debate:
If any other character(s) had told Hamlet that Hamlet Sr. was killed by Claudius, would Hamlet have believed him/them?
Second Question:
Why did Shakespeare make Horatio the most selfless character in the play? He is just so keen and seems to be "pure of heart" or something like that.
Here are my 2 questions
1) In lines 312-318 of act 2, scene 2 Hamlet is talking about the actors that are coming to perform at the castle. He basically describes all of the character traits of each one of his family members but re;ating them to the actors that are coming. Is this a forshadowing of the scene that Hamlet puts in to "The Murther of Gonzago"?
2) In act 3 scene 1,after Hamlet has his rampage towards Ophelia, hen Polonius and the King are talking about what just happened and Ophelia is kneeling at her father's feet because she is distressed over what Hamlet just said to her and Polonius just up and leaves Ophelia when his follows the King. Why do you think he would not even mention a small word of regret to Opheila, espically when he was the one who made her confront Hamlet?
Answer to Maggie's questions:
1) In the Bible, Jephtah unwittingly sacrifices his daughter by making a vow too quickly. Hamlet, here, is making a reference between Polonius and Jephtah even thought Hamlet later states that he is not saying that because Polonuis has a daughter that he is like Jephtah.
2) I have two theories as to why Hamlet keeps saying "get thee to a nunnery" to Ophelia. The first is a nunnery is a place where she will not marry or have to deal woth the heartbreak of finding out that her husband has cheated on her or other things if the like. Secondly, Hamlet makes reference to going to a nunnery so that she will not become "a breeder of sinners." Hamlet makes reference to himself being a sinner as well from being born from his mother.
Okay, well, the purpose of the actors putting on a play at Hamlet's request is to see the actors' ability to portray a certain type of scene. He is particularly interested in the actor who will play his father, and therefor puts him to the test even more. Hamlet already has plans for using the play to uncover the truth about Claudius at this point.
Hamlet tells Ophelia, "get thee to a nunnery" as a sexual reference to never marry or "be a breeder of sinners," have a child. The breeder of sinners line tells his feelings of how evil man is and that he suggests that she never bear man's child.
okay, so my two questions are:
2.2 - What is the deal with the beginning of Hamlet's soliloquy? What is he saying when he mentions the players that are there and how they act?(Is it talking about their power over the audience or comparing their acting to some greater meaning in life?) wow, I totally confused myself even more...
3.1 - Does Claudius suspect Gertrude of siding with Hamlet at all by now? If not, then why does he send Gertrude out of the room when he propositions Ophelia to root out Hamlet's madness?
Answering Michelle’s first question, I think that he is half questioning himself (whether in his emo-state, he had really seen the ghost of his father) and half questioning spirits since he believes that it could have been the Devil who feigned the ghost to trick Hamlet. And as for the significance of these lines, Hamlet is stating his reason for putting on the play that will resemble his father’s death. He came up with this idea because he is not quite sure if Claudius is indeed the murderer of his father. He wants to be sure of it before he seeks revenge.
To answer Dan’s first question, Hamlet mentions the players because he is mad at himself for not doing anything. Even the player was able to express such deep feeling and emotion when speaking about the death of Hecuba who meant nothing to him in real life, while Hamlet hasn’t even done anything about his father’s death which is a real life situation to him and which actually means something to him.
To answer Kate's second question, I don't think that Hamlet actually goes on a "rampage." I think that this path was taken by the director of the play we saw, but it is not necessarily present in Shakespeare's words. The scene can work just as easily with both of them remaining relatively calm.
That being said, I agree that Polonius acted quite coldly towards Ophelia. But, I think it goes along with his character to act this way. He's very much out of touch with other's emotions, so when he told Ophelia to ignore Hamlet's advances, he probably assumed he had resolved her feelings for Hamlet as well. So, in these lines, I think he regards Ophelia the same way he regards Claudius or Gertrude: as a tool to getting to the bottom of Hamlet's apparent madness.
In response to Janna's first question, I believe Hamlet may be hinting , due to the word "chronicle", that history does in fact repeat itself and show up in different forms. Hamlet gives the first player lines in order to suit the scene more to his liking, so the play is obviously not a perfect match to the murther of Hamlet Sr. It is not a coincidence that the players perform the "Murder of Gonzago"; perhaps this is a real play and Shakespeare may have used some aspects of it in Hamlet.
I hope I am not utterly wrong about this...
In response to Janna's second question, I believe Hamlet is referring to his constant contemplation between life and death. "Crawling between earth and heaven" suggests that Hamlet's thoughts cloud his judgment. In the next line, Hamlet tells Ophelia not to trust him, thus the line before serves as the reason to why Ophelia should not trust him.
2.1: Who is Jephthah, and what is the purpose of the reference?
3.3: Why does Ophelia agree to do this? Does she really believe that Hamlet has honest feelings for her, like she has for him?
Dana:
If any other character(s) had told Hamlet that Hamlet Sr. was killed by Claudius, would Hamlet have believed him/them?
I think the only characters Hamlet would believe are Horatio, Rosencratz, and Guildenstern. All three are old friends of his of about the same age that he claims to trust.
Grace:Question 2: What is Hamlet trying to say in his soliloquy at the end of 2.2?
I think Hamlet is just frustrated that he can't find a way to prove that Claudius committed the murder without everyone thinking he's even crazier than they already do. He then realizes what the players can do with their acting and it hits him that a play is the way of probing Claudius' guilty conscience.
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