Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead...or they will be soon.
Here is your blog space for the beginning of Act One. What do you think the play is suggesting about fate (so far, anyway)?
Also here is the link to the This American Life audio Act V. Go to the page, look for "Our Favorite Shows" on the left; click on it and then, on the main page, click on "Act V." Please listen to it and be prepared to discuss it on Tuesday. You will need a full hour to listen to the whole thing.
posted by Ms. Clapp @ 10:35 AM
12 comments
12 Comments:
In Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead the whole idea of fate can be seen when Guildenstern explains his idea of how probability works. Guil says that the law of probability seem to working within un-, sub-, or supernatural forces but that since those forces have not been happening to them, humans are not held within un-, sub-, or supernatural forces; in all probability. Furthermore, Guil says that in tossing coins that there is a probability or at least a mathematical calculable chance, which "ensures that he will not upset himself by losing too much nor upset his opponent by winning too often. (Stoppard, 18)" Guil believes that there is a harmony and balance to life that ensures a kind of confidence that the world will continue being what it is. Just like how the sun rises as many times as it sets. The balance allows everything to even out in the end.
In Act 1, I think that the author is suggesting that no matter how hard we think we can change the present and future, it doesn't matter because you can't escape fate. It also reminds me of when Hamlet said that the things that are suppose to happen, will happen, and the things that aren't suppose to happen, will not. In Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead, Guildenstern stubbornly hopes for the coin to be tails, but again and again he is proven wrong. Although the probability of the coin being heads or tails is the same, the coin seems to always be heads. The only time the coin was tails is when they bet the players, and like Wanyi said, that was only by sheer luck that the player didn't look down at the coin. The coin turned tails eventually but it was all up to fate to see when the coin will turn tails.
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern's day, at this point, has been completely been governed by fate. They were awoken on this fateful day by a messenger because they had been summoned by the king, and they're caught in the most ridiculous heads streak in the history of coin tossing. They have not been given the choice to do anything, which may be the point. Maybe Stoppard is suggesting that choice is an illusion. We can make any number of choices in our lives, but none of them truly matter because they all will have the same outcome.
I think an interesting observation that Stoppard makes is that, as the coin-flipping shows, there is a 50% probability that chance is not operating at all.
I think Act I is suggesting that our fate is completely unpredictable and out of our hands. We don't have much control over the events that occur in our lives. If Guildenstern was meant to lose the coin flipping that many times then that was how it happened. It was Rosencrantz's fate to win the coin flip that many times, so that was how it went. I don't think the course of fate has much to do with the laws of probablity. Guildenstern was concerned about the fact that the coin landed on heads about a hundred times and it never occured to him that it was just how it was meant to be.Also i agree with Tania that it is wierd to be reading about Rosencrantz and Guildenstern's life when we know they will eventually be killed.
I believe that the play, so far, is suggesting that fate defines all of our lives. Everything is meant to be and like the Player says, “we have no control.” Even at times when we think we’re making a decision, that decision may have already been predetermined by fate. Chances, probabilities, and coincidences do not exist. Like the coin flipping shows, fate defies probability. Because it is almost impossible to get sooo many heads in a row, there must have been some other force/power that was acting, that being fate. Also, it was not a coincidence that Guildenstern and Rosencrantz were randomly woken up and given a task to do that will eventually lead to their deaths; it was fate.
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So far it seems to me that Stoppard is suggesting that fate is the ultimate determining factor, a sort of governing force in our lives. The prolonged coin tossing game between Ros and Guil seems to be in the play to show that there is a force that is more powerful and compelling than say, the law of probability, a certain force we like to call fate. Ros and Guil seem to be two incredibly muddled fellows, aimless and moving whichever way the wind of fate happens to blow them (talk about a bunch of supporting actors in their own lives).
p.s. I like what Michelle said about Stoppard perhaps suggesting that choice is only an illusion. *knocks on desk/snazzy snaps*
Before I talk about fate, I believe the first act was quite humorous; I was tempted to finish reading the play.
I found it odd when Rose and Guild had a difficult time remembering what they had done before the messenger came to get them. It almost seems like the messenger woke them up for the first time and perhaps his arrival sparked their purpose in their lives. It was fate that governed the coin toss and it was also fate that compelled Rose and Guild voyage to Elsinore. The play suggests that fate governs certain things, but not an entire life.
I believe that Rose and Guild introduce themselves with opposite names at some points in order to suggest their fates are interchangeable. This is also represented by the money exchanged by the two as they flip coins; the sum between the two is all that matters, not the sum of each character. All in all, some fates are intertwined and shared between numerous parties.
So far in the play, I think that Stoppard is trying to get across the idea that fate is the controlling factor in life. Guildenstern reasons how it is even possible for a coin to land heads consecutively for so many times. He considers the probability of a coin landing heads eighty-nine times in a row but the probability of it happening is so low that it must be fate. It was fate that they were able to reach a new record and it was fate that they were summoned by King Claudius to investigate Hamlet. There is no escaping fate and everything that is presumed to have been by chance is usually fate hiding in a mask.
One of the things that came to my mind after reading Act One of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead was the idea that we discussed in class: that of destiny, but more specifically, the question of what if the only purpose of a person was to pass by someone on the street at a certain time or something trivial like that? Rosencrantz and Guildenstern kept repeating how they were sent for to serve some purpose, the idea behind which is that they were predestined to have this one little role for which they were sent, to stumble across Hamlet at this one moment and affect him with their brief passage through his life. Presumably their destined purpose is to interrogate Hamlet about the cause of his madness and then be swept up into the tragedy, eventually to die due to what Hamlet sees as their transgressions. However, their lives are, in of themselves, meaningless, which Stoppard seems to suggest throughout Act 1 with their repeating, twisted conversations that lead nowhere and their inconsequential games. Everyone thus has a fate, but one’s purpose may be to be the catalyst for something greater, something outside of one’s own life. Stoppard also presents the idea that no one can know his fate ahead of time: the two men were sent for a mission via a “royal summons,” a very urgent mission, and yet they have no idea what they are supposed to do or what the summons was for. Rosencrantz describes the summons, saying they were urged to go quickly “lest [they] come too late!!,” yet, for what, he knows not: “How do I know? We haven’t got there yet” (19). With this line, Stoppard establishes the idea that Tania talked about, this wandering blindly toward one’s destiny without having any notion of what one’s actual fate or purpose in the world is. Guildenstern also declares about their predicament of not knowing their exact purpose: “What a fine persecution—to be kept intrigued without ever quite being enlightened…” (41), which again underscores this blind trudging through life. In addition, Act One illustrates how there is absolutely no certainty in life, which relates to the idea of never being able to know one’s fate. Guildenstern aptly declares to this end, “The only beginning is birth and the only end is death—if you can’t count on that, what can you count on?” Nothing is consistent, nothing can be predicted except birth and death. This is, of course, depicted in the coin-flipping scene, in which the coin is flipped and lands on heads 92 consecutive times. Fate governed, with its inconsistency and opposition to natural laws, that this coin should fall on heads 92 times, and so it did. As such, one would presume that the coin would continue to land on heads forever, but then, just as unpredictably, the coin landed on tails when the two men continued the game with the player. Also interrelated with the idea of not being able to control fate is that of people almost being spectators to life, as Rosencrantz proclaims, “I feel like a spectator—an appalling business” (41). Fate has already predetermined the lives of Guildenstern and Rosencrantz, and thus they are almost like spectators to their own lives, unable to control or manipulate them because they have already been planned out for the two men. However, despite the overwhelming idea of fate presented, there is some insinuation of chance being involved, as developed in the conversation between the players and Rosencrantz and Guildenstern:
“Guil: It was chance then?
Player: Chance?
Guil: You found us.
Player: Oh yes.
Guil: You were looking?
Player: Oh no.
Guil: Chance then.
Player: Or fate.
Guil: Yours or ours?
Player: It could hardly be one without the other.
Guil: Fate, then.
Player: Oh yes. We have no control” (25).
On deeper examination, actually, I believe this conversation relates more to the power that fate holds over everyone’s lives, and while things may seem to happen out of chance, they were actually part of a higher plan. It may seem to be a chance encounter between the players and the two men, and it may seemed to have been chance that the coin landed on heads 92 times in a row, but actually destiny was the dominating power. In fact, the events of Act One appear so random on the surface that it feels like there must be a greater reason that they occurred.
In Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead, Tom Stoppard suggests that fate is the only force acting upon everyone on this planet. I completely agree with Michelle's assertion that choice is an illusion; nothing really matters because it's all planned out to end a certain way. The coin tossing was a metaphor for life and death; heads or tails. People believe that with every choice they make, they are gambling with a 50/50 chance between life and death, however, that "choice" is really predestined, therefore the gamble is an illusion.
So basically, what I got from Act I is that you're not the boss of your own life, even though you THINK you are.
After reading Act 1, I think that fate is an unexpected phenomena in which you never know what is going to happen. I came to this conclusion when I was reading about the coin tosses going on and how Rosencrantz and Guildenstern were trying to figure out the probability of a coin landing on heads or tails. It is accepted that they coin will lands on heads as many times as tails, but in this case, they went well over a hundred flips with the coin landing on heads all the time. I believe that fate is the expected outcome. We all believe that certain things are going to happen to us in life but we really can't say. We are going to keep flipping that coin and are going to get the unexpected results as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern did. For example in our lives, we all believe that we are going to get out of high school and go to college, but factual evidence shows that 5 kids out of every high school class will die before they graduate, so that is very unexpected for everyone. You can expect and predict all you want about your life, but fate is going to throw a curve ball at you whenever possible.
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